Free Employees ?

[ovyyus]

Classic troll. Jim will play the victim until the day he dies. Cold comfort in old habits.

IMO, it's past time to put this incarnation out of it's misery.

[Grimer]

Classic troll. Jim will play the victim until the day he dies. Cold comfort in old habits.

IMO, it's past time to put this incarnation out of it's misery.

I notice I have just lost a greenie.

That'll teach me not to be the one to apply the coup de gras, eh!
Still, it seems to have done the trick. His posts have disappeared.

[ovyyus]

Another classic...

[nicbordeaux]

Yup, this is a bore, all the personal acrimony. I saw somewhere Murilo got flamed for his design and persistance for believing in it. I have no issues with Murilo, he's a decent guy with a sense of humour. His greenie was punched long ago for some very useful suggestions and input, and it's not going to change. Will my "reputation" drop today ?

Thing with "unworkable" designs is that if you build them, you likely can identify any bugs, and sort them. Or move on. Or find out that they actually work... True though Murilo, if you could stop posting that sketch of your device every post, it might help :D

OK, shall I make a "working wheel" claim for a wheel which I am 100% sure will work but can't be bothered to build right now ? Would that detract attention ? Just out of interest, the wheel will work because it doesn't rely on a OB weight wheel alone. The thing which holds the wheel is also under the effect of G and imbalance, and it feed's back to the wheel. Remeber the "Wobbly Man" toy ? Ruggero partly picked up on the concept some time ago.

Please note that this isn't a claim, just a suggestion I could make one, and that furthermore I have no interest in sharing until I move my lazy ass and build a working model.

Edit : You lost a Greenie Frank ? Seem's you just got it back. Maybe the dreaded Red Dotter relented or repented, or some charitable person intervened.

[murilo]

murilo, your no longer worth the trouble, red dot and onto my ignore list. Its not like i'm going to miss anything. Youve never had an original idea or contributed anything intelligent to any other discussion other than delusional distraction with a worthless idea.

Tell me about that!

[murilo]

Yup, this is a bore, all the personal acrimony. I saw somewhere Murilo got flamed for his design and persistance for believing in it. I have no issues with Murilo, he's a decent guy with a sense of humour. His greenie was punched long ago for some very useful suggestions and input, and it's not going to change. Will my "reputation" drop today ?

Thing with "unworkable" designs is that if you build them, you likely can identify any bugs, and sort them. Or move on. Or find out that they actually work... True though Murilo, if you could stop posting that sketch of your device every post, it might help :D

OK, shall I make a "working wheel" claim for a wheel which I am 100% sure will work but can't be bothered to build right now ? Would that detract attention ? Just out of interest, the wheel will work because it doesn't rely on a OB weight wheel alone. The thing which holds the wheel is also under the effect of G and imbalance, and it feed's back to the wheel. Remeber the "Wobbly Man" toy ? Ruggero partly picked up on the concept some time ago.

Please note that this isn't a claim, just a suggestion I could make one, and that furthermore I have no interest in sharing until I move my lazy ass and build a working model.

Edit : You lost a Greenie Frank ? Seem's you just got it back. Maybe the dreaded Red Dotter relented or repented, or some charitable person intervened.

Nic,
as a smart guy, you know that I'm going to tell you some response!
And this is the Eastern surprise:
I'll tell you nothing!
Best!
Murilo

[pequaide]

I agree with jim_mich on the avalanche machine, you are leveraging the light (right) side. I doesn’t look like a lever because everything is held close to the pivot points but that has to be what it is because the light side is moving faster.

The drawn machines may have 20 slow moving spheres on the heavy (left) side and 10 spheres on the right side. That means that the right side is moving twice as fast. At the same time that one sphere reaches the bottom another sphere must reach the top. Twenty one kilogram spheres moving one meter per second would have 20 units of momentum; and ten one kilogram spheres moving 2 m/sec would have 20 units of momentum. This would be a balanced system for Newtonian motion. I predict that if such a machine was ever built it would quickly run down even after a good push. The fact that it would quickly run down would be due to the multitude of bearing points.

Now let’s check the energy of both sides. Twenty one kilogram spheres moving one meter per second would have 10 joules of energy; and ten one kilogram spheres moving 2 m/sec would have 20 joules of energy (1/2mv²). Ouch; the right side has more energy. If you are an energyist the light side would drive the heavy side once the system is in motion, and the right side should have no trouble overcoming the low energy left side. But the heavy left side is the gravitational drive side. If energy controlled motion interactions this machine would have the breaks on for sure. The low energy drive side would not be able to overcome the drag of the high energy return side. With all the bearing points it should stop in a tenth of a turn even after being given a good push.

But a rod with the bearing at the center of mass spins very nicely doesn’t. It doesn’t matter if the masses on the ends of the rod are two to one or ten to one; as long as the lever lengths compensates; the rod will spin without wobbling. At two to one or ten to one the energies on the ends of the rod are quite different. Maybe energy is not the controlling factor in motion. Oh; the momentums on the ends of the balanced spinning rod are identical. The heavy short side could be used as the drive side and it would give the long light side more energy than the heavy end started with. You simply have to use the correct observable facts to make your machines work.

Here is a twist: make the avalanche an avalaunch. Let the twenty 1 kilogram spheres drop 2 cm they will have a velocity of .626 m/sec, and a momentum of .626m/sec * 20 = 12.53. Transfer all the momentum to one kilogram and that one kilogram will rise .5 * 12.53 m/sec * 12.53 m/sec / 9.81 m/sec/sec = 8 meters. This is 3.92 joules of initial energy and 78.48 joules of final energy.

Such experiments have been conducted and have been found to conform with Newtonian Physics. The missile released has more energy than the initial slow moving mass. I have made energy in the lab using several different simple mechanical devices.

[to.late]

Classic troll. Jim will play the victim until the day he dies. Cold comfort in old habits.

IMO, it's past time to put this incarnation out of it's misery.

I notice I have just lost a greenie.

That'll teach me not to be the one to apply the coup de gras, eh!
Still, it seems to have done the trick. His posts have disappeared.

Grimer,
Your losing a greenie had nothing to do with me.
Never even read your post. Still, I have seen another side to Alan you have not seen.
In fact his step-son Michael might be willing to tell you about it. I liked him but Alan made him quit the forum.
But then, I do have other things I can do. Alan is not worth the hassle to build Bessler's wheel. Engineering and math can always solve such puzzles. After all, his wheel was mechanical.

edited to add,; read alan's wife's post. If Bessler's wheel waas solved, what would Alan have to do with his free time ? Nothing. Same would go for a lot of people.
And read my response to her post Grimer and co. before you go patting yourselves on the back. I thought she might be Alan's wife, but then I like Michael :-) He's a smart kid. If you ask him, he may even say I mentioned that a few times.
You guys really don't have a life, do you ? Oh well.

[murilo]

I agree with jim_mich on the avalanche machine, you are leveraging the light (right) side. I doesn’t look like a lever because everything is held close to the pivot points but that has to be what it is because the light side is moving faster.

The drawn machines may have 20 slow moving spheres on the heavy (left) side and 10 spheres on the right side. That means that the right side is moving twice as fast. At the same time that one sphere reaches the bottom another sphere must reach the top. Twenty one kilogram spheres moving one meter per second would have 20 units of momentum; and ten one kilogram spheres moving 2 m/sec would have 20 units of momentum. This would be a balanced system for Newtonian motion. I predict that if such a machine was ever built it would quickly run down even after a good push. The fact that it would quickly run down would be due to the multitude of bearing points.

Now let’s check the energy of both sides. Twenty one kilogram spheres moving one meter per second would have 10 joules of energy; and ten one kilogram spheres moving 2 m/sec would have 20 joules of energy (1/2mv²). Ouch; the right side has more energy. If you are an energyist the light side would drive the heavy side once the system is in motion, and the right side should have no trouble overcoming the low energy left side. But the heavy left side is the gravitational drive side. If energy controlled motion interactions this machine would have the breaks on for sure. The low energy drive side would not be able to overcome the drag of the high energy return side. With all the bearing points it should stop in a tenth of a turn even after being given a good push.

But a rod with the bearing at the center of mass spins very nicely doesn’t. It doesn’t matter if the masses on the ends of the rod are two to one or ten to one; as long as the lever lengths compensates; the rod will spin without wobbling. At two to one or ten to one the energies on the ends of the rod are quite different. Maybe energy is not the controlling factor in motion. Oh; the momentums on the ends of the balanced spinning rod are identical. The heavy short side could be used as the drive side and it would give the long light side more energy than the heavy end started with. You simply have to use the correct observable facts to make your machines work.

Here is a twist: make the avalanche an avalaunch. Let the twenty 1 kilogram spheres drop 2 cm they will have a velocity of .626 m/sec, and a momentum of .626m/sec * 20 = 12.53. Transfer all the momentum to one kilogram and that one kilogram will rise .5 * 12.53 m/sec * 12.53 m/sec / 9.81 m/sec/sec = 8 meters. This is 3.92 joules of initial energy and 78.48 joules of final energy.

Such experiments have been conducted and have been found to conform with Newtonian Physics. The missile released has more energy than the initial slow moving mass. I have made energy in the lab using several different simple mechanical devices.

Pequaide, hi!
Thanks for your serious and kind appreciation, even if I'm afraid you still have some points to discover about my design.

Please, forget all those Jim's draws and please look at mine.

There is no way to get more energy at expanded side than in contracted one. Both sides will show equivalent maximum work at free gravity action.

The idea is to hold the wheel and collect torque between max and minimum work.

All balls or rods of the chain are, in 2D, just like halters and connected by small axles. This small axle is used to be hanged at the wheel's hooks.

The hook at near 10h of the wheel is the first one to receive all mobile mass in fall. The set of heavy side and the diameter of the wheel will be forced to behave in a continuous and sequential fall.

Take a look at the photo I send now. This is my model at present state and show just the chain in contraction, the wheel and the empty way.

I deal to some constructive problems, but look at the white cord that hang all set... it's absolutely in tension, since the heavy side works as a huge single direction piston.

In your calculus you must consider that 'g' acceleration will impose the square in the work formula for both sides, showing different sure results.

When I search for a name, avalaunch was one of my options. 8)

Everything is very simple indeed and I hope you will keep talking.
Best!
Murilo

[Grimer]

Classic troll. Jim will play the victim until the day he dies. Cold comfort in old habits.

IMO, it's past time to put this incarnation out of it's misery.

I notice I have just lost a greenie.

That'll teach me not to be the one to apply the coup de gras, eh!
Still, it seems to have done the trick. His posts have disappeared.

Grimer,
Your losing a greenie had nothing to do with me. ...

Don't worry. I didn't think it was.

I thought it was the natural consequence of my revoking the greenie I gave you in favour of a reddie. If you read the FAQ you will see that giving people reddies has consequences so if one is on a borderline it will push one over the edge.

To be honest I had got fed up with you constantly referring to Hammer and what happened on another forum. If you want to quarrel with him please do it by PM. I note you are familiar with these since you have just sent me one. I have read it and noted its contents but I do not propose to reply.

[nicbordeaux]

Hey Murilo, that's a full build you have there, or look's like it. So, does it work, or does it not work ? If it doesn't work, why ? Just out of interest, have you tried driving a wheel from it ? What happens ?

[murilo]

Hey, Nic, yes... this is the model... my mechanical novella...

Many, many times, many trying, many fails...
All fails are due to the poor behavior of the hooks wheel you can see below the model.

This is the third wheel I draw and still is not enough good and doesn't avoid the chain 'escapement', which is too violent!

This is a dangerous stuff! Believe me! You should see what happens when the chain escapes and falls down in 1/10 of a second! 8(

In the photo you will see to a small wooden block and the cord... without them I get the not driven avalanche... From near one can see that the pile of the photo is 'complaining' and ready to do a fast 'free job'! 8)

All other parts work very well and according my project! Even this wheel works ( moved by arms force ) very fine - with OK the reversion - if I push all chain assembling in HORIZONTAL position, without forcing the VERTICAL hanging and chain's hooks.

For this last wheel it has being already hard to get a CAD draw and a laser good will cutter.

The main objective is to assay a simple 'U' shape for the set, where OF SURE the lighter side will stop higher than the heavier. All parts are result of great simplification and, in separated, all them work as expected, WITHOUT any other disturbance from ( or to ) other parts and 'surprises'.

I'm sure that the personal study of this static model convinces to anyone that the development is worthy and feasible... thing that I know for so many years!

Thanks for asking!
Best!
Murilo
Edited PS: the unbalance state is clear, violent, obvious and logic!

[murilo]

Hello you guys!

I married this forum in 2002, in times of the first board, and I'm 20th member in this new one - 2003.

Since start, for many times I faced discussions about my main project, as you know enough.

Every one of these discussions became dead and interrupted without any conclusion that could respect any two digits IQ.

(nobody is obliged to talk, or read, me, for sure! )

As many NEW members are coming everyday, I use to advertise my design and this is a hard disturbance to some... (this advertise will keep, since I don't care for red dot menaces.)

Others also used to say several times: 'oh, murilo... we have discussed this so much and you know already that this will not work!'... or even 'look at my - stupid - simulations!'

Well, this happens now again and the question is cutout, even without conclusions and with the bad quality of the arguments you presented.

My convincing keeps the same, as ever since 198... so, I'll keep advertising and sharing, just like all of you should do, IF/WHEN you get any idea.

Take care and, in silence/ignore, try to respect my mind.
Murilo