1. The Laws of Thermodynamics take some beating as does the Law of CoE, & this is the challenge, some would say the obstacle, of explaining a paradox, assuming you haven't missed 'something elementary'.
2. Having an increase in overall system Pe on paper would be a very good start - ratifying that by an idiot proof experiment able to be replicated & stand scrutiny would be absolute & fundamental proof.
3. An increase in Pe of mass should then be able to be translated into a conditions reset to perpetuate rise & fall of mass & cover losses & do external work [loop back to item 1 to mechanically & mathematically explain the exception to the Laws].
Women members?
Moderator: scott
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Unbalanced
- Aficionado
- Posts: 672
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:53 pm
- Location: Bend, OR
re: Women members?
astillmoregloriousdawn writes:
Often this missed elementary component is the most obvious, ie it is right there in front of us but we can not see it for the bigger picture of our concept. The old forest for the tree scenario.
Finding someone you feel you can trust is often as hard as finding someone who will understand or even care.
If your math continues to demonstrate an increase in PE then indeed you are likely on the right path.
Best of luck to you in everything.
I feel safe in saying that we all have come to the conclusion that we are to some degree "idiotic" Dawn and we all continue to "miss something elementary."Anyways.. I’ve already assumed that I’m just idiotic and have missed something elementary. I think that is the most likely scenario in any case like this. The maths that I keep coming up with show an increase in PE that is higher than it started. Isn’t this what we should be looking for?
Often this missed elementary component is the most obvious, ie it is right there in front of us but we can not see it for the bigger picture of our concept. The old forest for the tree scenario.
Finding someone you feel you can trust is often as hard as finding someone who will understand or even care.
If your math continues to demonstrate an increase in PE then indeed you are likely on the right path.
Best of luck to you in everything.
re: Women members?
Quote Dawn: The maths that I keep coming up with show an increase in PE that is higher than it started. Isn’t this what we should be looking for?
Yes: that is what we are looking for and a wheel wrapped with a weighted string has been used to do it.
Yes: that is what we are looking for and a wheel wrapped with a weighted string has been used to do it.
re: Women members?
Dawn,
You state that you would not pursue my options which are meant to be samples of some of the ways an inventor may wish to manage their new found machine.
If you would rather use it in a side business then I have a suggestion;
As CEO of 'Arrache' I like to feel confident that I keep up with the industrial and mechanical technology. On my list of contacts is a tool and Die factory owner who is also interested in Bessler. His facility is not a small operation and his winter monthly utility bill runs him in excess of $8,000.00 USD per month.
Here is a contact that has the resources and skilled machinists that would be more than willing to build and utilize your design providing the return is cost effective. I have had the opportunity to work with him in the past, he has sent me machined items to fabricate ideas at no charge or shipping fees to 'Arrache' or me as an individual.
Never 'assume' anything whether it be yourself or your design! True you have to be considered a little outside the socialistic norm to be on this forum. I do not believe that qualifies us all to be idiots(there are some exceptions) I certainly do not believe you qualify to call yourself an idiot.
My philosophy is to come up with a runner and then let the math gurus rewrite the equations in physics to match your runner!
Ralph
You state that you would not pursue my options which are meant to be samples of some of the ways an inventor may wish to manage their new found machine.
If you would rather use it in a side business then I have a suggestion;
As CEO of 'Arrache' I like to feel confident that I keep up with the industrial and mechanical technology. On my list of contacts is a tool and Die factory owner who is also interested in Bessler. His facility is not a small operation and his winter monthly utility bill runs him in excess of $8,000.00 USD per month.
Here is a contact that has the resources and skilled machinists that would be more than willing to build and utilize your design providing the return is cost effective. I have had the opportunity to work with him in the past, he has sent me machined items to fabricate ideas at no charge or shipping fees to 'Arrache' or me as an individual.
Never 'assume' anything whether it be yourself or your design! True you have to be considered a little outside the socialistic norm to be on this forum. I do not believe that qualifies us all to be idiots(there are some exceptions) I certainly do not believe you qualify to call yourself an idiot.
Yes that is exactly what we seek. Over the years I have received submissions based on math and no design, they looked good. However either a build or knowledge gained from past experience always proved wrong. I would rather work from a sketched idea even if it is only one mechanism for a wheel designed for multiples.The maths that I keep coming up with show an increase in PE that is higher than it started. Isn’t this what we should be looking for?
My philosophy is to come up with a runner and then let the math gurus rewrite the equations in physics to match your runner!
Ralph
re: Women members?
The present formulas work just fine except that there will be a slash through the equal sign that represents the Law of Conservation of Energy. And no more phony friends like heat will be found in the equations.
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James.Lindgaard
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- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:56 pm
Re: re: Women members?
Dawn,
I have used math extensively in trying to understand Bessler's wheel.
I think some of the basic things people over look is that when a weight's path changes, it loses momentum.
Also, to move a weight in opposition to CF will require an amount of energy equal to the force generated by m*v=f.
Myself, I am doubtful about an over balanced wheel producing energy sufficient to be commercially viable. Among other things, I have worked with power generation systems of up to about 1500 Kw. And knowing a steam turbine usies about 400 psi of steam or more gives me a different perspective.
And as to finding a way to change m*v - CF = 0 is something I believe Bessler did. m*v would be one weight while CF would another weight.
Am certain I couls show the math proof, but does not mean it would be accepted.
Jim
edited to add; look at the last few posts of the thread 2rlortie and I think you will see what I mean about idea's based in science or math being accepted.
Hope you have better luck with them than I have had.
I have used math extensively in trying to understand Bessler's wheel.
I think some of the basic things people over look is that when a weight's path changes, it loses momentum.
Also, to move a weight in opposition to CF will require an amount of energy equal to the force generated by m*v=f.
Myself, I am doubtful about an over balanced wheel producing energy sufficient to be commercially viable. Among other things, I have worked with power generation systems of up to about 1500 Kw. And knowing a steam turbine usies about 400 psi of steam or more gives me a different perspective.
And as to finding a way to change m*v - CF = 0 is something I believe Bessler did. m*v would be one weight while CF would another weight.
Am certain I couls show the math proof, but does not mean it would be accepted.
Jim
edited to add; look at the last few posts of the thread 2rlortie and I think you will see what I mean about idea's based in science or math being accepted.
Hope you have better luck with them than I have had.
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aStillMoreGloriousDawn
- Enthusiast
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- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:21 am
- Location: USA
re: Women members?
Ralph - The concept of the mechanism came first, then I checked the math to verify somethings. Instead of verification, I got anomalies. There is always an increase in PE and the ratio is always the same. (The ratio is not 4:1)
Thanks for taking time out of your schedule to humor this notion and give me some options. I've been sitting on this for many months and I've been antsy, because I had wanted to do my own build by my birthday.. which was on the 27th. I just don't have the skills to do it and I don't know how to learn.. this isn't something you can just buy in the store.
I'll be considering your services, but I need more time to think about this. I think at this point I would be willing to pay you directly to build certain components of it. From now on I'll be writing to you privately.
As a side note, this has nothing to do with Pequaide’s transfer of momentum experiments.
Thanks for taking time out of your schedule to humor this notion and give me some options. I've been sitting on this for many months and I've been antsy, because I had wanted to do my own build by my birthday.. which was on the 27th. I just don't have the skills to do it and I don't know how to learn.. this isn't something you can just buy in the store.
I'll be considering your services, but I need more time to think about this. I think at this point I would be willing to pay you directly to build certain components of it. From now on I'll be writing to you privately.
As a side note, this has nothing to do with Pequaide’s transfer of momentum experiments.
"Science replaces private prejudice... with publicly verifiable evidence."
Re: re: Women members?
Above msg makes me think and remember of a terrible crude reality:Unbalanced wrote:astillmoregloriousdawn writes:
I feel safe in saying that we all have come to the conclusion that we are to some degree "idiotic" Dawn and we all continue to "miss something elementary."Anyways.. I’ve already assumed that I’m just idiotic and have missed something elementary. I think that is the most likely scenario in any case like this. The maths that I keep coming up with show an increase in PE that is higher than it started. Isn’t this what we should be looking for?
Often this missed elementary component is the most obvious, ie it is right there in front of us but we can not see it for the bigger picture of our concept. The old forest for the tree scenario.
Finding someone you feel you can trust is often as hard as finding someone who will understand or even care.
If your math continues to demonstrate an increase in PE then indeed you are likely on the right path.
Best of luck to you in everything.
in this forum we are dealing to technical mechanical problems, or troubles, that could get solutions by smarts Egyptians at 3000BC. 8|
Eh?... Eh?... 8/
Still happy? 8X
M.
Re: re: Women members?
Your experiments pequaide didn't show a gain in Pe IINM - you theorized that the bola's, pucks etc had an increase in Ke - whilst you can convert Ke into Pe N.B. it is done regularly in aviation where its called 'converting speed to height' when you have an engine failure i.e. you lift the nose & gain height [Pe] whilst loosing velocity [Ke].pequaide wrote:Quote Dawn: The maths that I keep coming up with show an increase in PE that is higher than it started. Isn’t this what we should be looking for?
Yes: that is what we are looking for and a wheel wrapped with a weighted string has been used to do it.
I don't believe you showed any video that could be analyzed frame by frame to determine the Ke of the bola's etc that could be converted to Pe equivalent - you did mention photo gate timing but never posted any figures in support, also IINM.
I do remember that Nick, ovyyus & wubbly couldn't get any increase in Pe in their experiments using a wheel & tethered flung mass - neither could I using WM2D.
So I don't know how you can say gaining Pe has been shown when you say catagorically "a wheel wrapped with a weighted string has been used to do it".
If you have proof then please point me to it so I can see this system gain in Pe anomaly.
If Dawn can show a gain in system Pe mechanically then she could indeed be on to something worthwhile - that is the holy grail of this pursuit.
re: Women members?
Dawn wrote;
Ralph
Understood! I have nothing more to add to this thread at this time.I'll be considering your services, but I need more time to think about this. I think at this point I would be willing to pay you directly to build certain components of it. From now on I'll be writing to you privately.
Ralph