MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

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rlortie
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Re: re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by rlortie »

Jonathan wrote:I'm not sure what you're asking about the math Ralph. But here is an illistration of what I guess is what winkle is seeing. Red and blue are each arms, orange are hinges, and the parts labeled d (unaltered) serve to limit their motion.
Jonathan,

The purpose of the math was to get an idea of swing amplitude.
when I visualize two rings I see both hanging down when at 12 and 6 o'clock, you end up with a bottom heavy pendulum. If this is so then ganged mutiple phase wheels would be the only thing to keep it moving.

Second purpose of the math is that in a four quarter configuration the hinge point has to run trianguly from 12 to 3, 3 to 6,etc. to install the hinges on a 4 quartered ring as visioned in your drawing, it would be like mounting door hinges with one on the vertical jamb and the other on the header or top of door. This of course will not work.

Even with 4 sections you will end up with an even centered vertical balance point, so now one may consider an odd number of rings as desribed in my Odd-Even topic thread.

In closing I will throw in that this design could be seen as pertaining to the Bessler quote "It has a rim but then it does not" or how ever he said it.

Ralph
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Re: re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by Joel Wright »

Jonathan wrote:Well, you're welcome to that opinion. Anyway, have you built this device or not? If not, all your comments seem premature.
On a pretty much unrelated note, I clicked the IP button at the upper right of your posts, and it says that once Joel Wright posted from the same IP. I don't really understand IP's, so that could be meaningless, but maybe you know him?
Hi Jonathan sometimes I post from the Pa.state library in Kutztown.Which is a public library,and thousands of students having access.Anyhow whoever you are (winkle?) Welcome to Besslerswheel.com.As always Joel Wright
Work with gravity and gravity will work for you.There are more than two sides to a wheel.
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by Michael »

Well this is somthing new,

Gravmaster2000 wrote:
I can only hope my eventual disclosure doesn't go like this.....SHEESH!!!


ROTFL (scaring the cat)
Thanks Viper...



Is that Vector Viper? I always wondered what had happened to you. I thought you lived in England though.
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by Joel Wright »

... my name is jim neLson... i live in arlington texas...Sorry Jim I did'nt read the whole thread carefully....Joel Wright
Work with gravity and gravity will work for you.There are more than two sides to a wheel.
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by rlortie »

Group,

THE MT136 puzzle

I have been studying the posts in this thread while looking at a downloaded MT136 image by Jim_Smith. After close study I believe that we have not hit on it yet. First I would like to know what the black rectangle at the top represents. Is it part of the machine or blacked out text?

I stated yesterday that I could build this by using the initial idea. Now after reading arguments as to what turns and what doesnÂ’t, I went back to the original drawing and have formed my own hypothesis. I am not stating that I have found the answer, as I still have not got all the mechanical attributes figured. To describe my thought it may be useful for you to have an MT136 copy beside you.

First note that “A” vertical and “A” horizontal is next to the rim at 12 and 3 o’clock.
Both respective “D’S” are farther from the rim. The “D” at twelve o’clock appears to have a larger weight on the right compared to the left. In this position the wheel will be heavy to the right and turn clockwise. Now imagine that all four “D’s” have a light and heavy weight with the bar attached firmly off-center to “C”. Off center implies to the width and not the length of bar. The offset should be alternate on each end of “A”. (Not sure about this yet).

All “C’S” are firmly attached to “A’s”. As the wheel rotates each set of “D” weight’s [Two weights attached together] will rotate 180 degrees from six to nine so as to keep the heavy weight on the bottom. Being firmly attached to ”C”, “A” will now rotate ½ turn. The whole wheel revolves and each “D-C-A” is turning 180 degrees first one way and then180 the other in a full cycle. I have not figured out the configuration yet but would like to achieve 360-degree revolution in “A” per wheel revolution.

Now if you’re still with me, take a look at “B”. Look closely and you will see what appears to be a helix shaped gear on each “A”. Both “A’s” are continuous and have this gear showing. This could compare with a “rack and pinion” but here both must mesh as a right angle drive. Now as the wheel revolves “D” is turning “A” which in turn is turning the other “A”. This gives us a right –left, up-down motion, that always keeps “D” extended on the right and retracted on the left.

Ralph Lortie February 14, 2005
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by Michael »

Na, it is basically four corkscrews. When the heavyside swings to the bottom, the corkscrew torque handles hit a warped board and spin the corkscrew like a flywheel, spinning them upwards, so the lower and higher move making the wheel off balance again.

giggle.
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by RonS »

Hi Winkle
I made one like I thought you were describing and it would swing in and out at different times than you were saying, no way this will work. Then I reversed the hinges and amazing, the top would swing out at about 11:00 and the bottom would swing back at about 5:00 just before it would "keel". I think you might have something, I'm going to add more "levers" and see what happens then. Thanks Ron
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by winkle »

works like said don't it also like said got to have more than one wheel
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by winkle »

RonS--if you make the leavers the same radis as the wheel you can attach two on the front side and two on the back side rather than on the rim all has to do with center of gravity applyed to the leavers it's not the same as center of gravity for the wheel on axel remember carpenters boy can build it in a day
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by winkle »

what we are really looking at .............right to left (A) hollow tube ( pipe)attached to wheel by a spring it passes through...........same on (A)going up and down ...........up and down (A) is on back side of wheel............right and left is on front of wheel or whitch ever.................(D) is a rod running through those tubes with short right angle rods attached to the ends .................(C) is used for both wheel and leaver ............one (C) on wheel and one (C) on leaver................leaver being really part of the wheel...................rember bessler said springs used but not like you think
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by winkle »

he said a wheel may not be able to contain it ..........the leaver being part of the wheel..............the wheel it's self causes the out of balance................check it out
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by winkle »

check it out
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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by winkle »

rememberthis also bessler said his weights shifted at 11:00...........i never really measured to get the exat time spot on the wheel just assuming about 10:30 .........11:00 is probly closerit's what bessler said enyway
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Re: re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by jim_mich »

winkle wrote:rememberthis also bessler said his weights shifted at 11:00
I was unaware that Bessler said this?

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re: MR. BESSLERS WONDERFUL WHEEL

Post by winkle »

compare this with i have said.....................Subj: Interpretation (first suggestion) of Besslers Apologia, by Øystein Rustad 03.01.



GREED IS AN EVIL ROOT,

: AND WILL NOT MAKE YOU DISCOVER PERPETUAL MOTION,

: ONLY GENUINE INTEREST WILL.

: BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE MANY ERRORS,

: AND GET MANY BLOWS TO ACHIEVE IT.


: ONE WEIGHT "RELAXES",

: WHILE ONE MOVES WITH THE VELOCITY OF THE RIM.

: ONE WEIGHT CAN TELL WHAT IS COMING,

: AND COMMUNICATE THIS TO ANOTHER WEIGHT.

: WHEN THE WEIGHTS ARE FORCED AGAINST GRAVITY,

: THEY MOVE SLOW.

: FIRST THE WEIGHTS MOVE SLOW AND "CLUMSY",

: THEN A SPRING STRETCHES,

: AND THE WEIGHTS WANT TO MOVE AHEAD.

: THEN THEY ARE ACCELERATED.

: AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN SWUNG SILENTLY AHEAD,

: THE WEIGHTS IMPACT.

: AFTER THE WEIGHTS MOVE SILENTLY WITH THE WHEEL,

: THE WEIGHTS ARE PULLED OUT ON ITS ARM,

: AND ARE STOPPED AT THE END OF THE ARM.
.....................looks like i get a lot of validation in this
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