right angles

[Fletcher]

Was not the relevant quote about 'perpendicular to the axis' ?

INM it has morphed into 'right angles'.

If it was in AP it will be in German - if in DT German & Latin which can be cross-referenced for accuracy.

I could be mistaken.

[jim_mich]

The sole "clue" that Bessler left that seem's to be of any significance is the statement about weights working in pairs, and seeking to attain equilibrium but never managing to do so. Just my uninformed opinion.

Do we disregard all the other clues???

1. Machine was set in motion by weights.
2. Weights acted in pairs.
3. Weights gained force from their own swinging (or movement).
4. these weights ... are the essential parts ... and when they come to be placed together and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium ... one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis ...
5. Springs were employed, but not as detractors suggested.
6. The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter.
7. So then, a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, at its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time.
   
   Alternate: Indeed, a work of art must drive itself from many separate pieces of lead; That are now always two and two; If a thing takes outwardly the place, thus the other drives to the axle/shaft; this is soon here, and that is soon there; And also changes on and on.
8. the wonderful doings of these weights, alternately gravitating to the center and climbing back up again,
9. A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain.
   
   Alternate: he shall be called a great craftsman/artist, who can easily throw a heavy thing high, and when one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds four quarters high. Who of this can speculate, will soon the motion perpetuate, who however does not yet know this, all that industry is in vain.
10. He can rack his brains and work his fingers to the bones with all sorts of ingenious ideas about adding extra weights here and there. The only result would be that his wheel will get heavier and heavier - it would run longer if it were empty!
11. Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the center than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago, I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to me that one has to learn through bitter experience.
12. no weights hang from the axle of my wheel.
13. there is nothing supercritical about the exact disposition of the weights - an ounce more or less, here or there, makes not a scrap of difference to the Wheel
14. Ask any of those who have groped inside my Wheel and grasped its axle" - "Rather, it has many compartments, and is pierced all over with various holes.
15. one pound can cause the raising of more than one pound.
16. What if I were to teach the proper method of mechanical application? Then people would say: 'Now I understand!'
17. If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulls and weights, the machine can revolve much faster
18. I don't want to go into the details here of how suddenly the excess weight is caused to rise. You can't comprehend these matters, or see how true craftsmanship can rise above innate lowly tendencies (as does a weight above the point of application of a lever)
19. If one weight is giving an upward impetus, another one, at the same time, is giving an equal downward one.
20. It must, simply put, just revolve, without being wound-up, through the principle of 'excess weight'
21. it runs according to 'preponderance', and turns everything else along with it; as long as its materials shall endure, it will revolve of its own accord.
22. On one side it is heavy and full; on the other empty and light, just as it should be.
23. All the wise ones were looking for the same principle (of 'excess weight') that I have described, and they sought it in things that were already familiar to them.
24. by all intelligent people, who, with true understanding, have sought the Mobile in a place no different from that in which I eventually found it.
25. there's always the danger that a surreptitious shove would knock it out of balance and bring it grinding to a halt.
26. I constructed my great work, the 6-ell diameter wheel. It revolved in either direction, but caused me a few headaches before I got the mechanism properly adjusted.
27. reached the stage now where even a poor workman could put the thing together without a lot of head-scratching; and get it completed almost before you could notice
28. The clattering noise you refer to is, I assure you, a phenomenon caused directly by the real motive power of the machine, and nothing else.
29. Note: The Draschwitz machine did not create a similar noise because it worked on quite different principles.
30. I make my machines in such a way that, big or small, I can make the resulting power small or big as I choose. I can get the power to a perfectly calculated degree, multiplied up even as much as fourfold.
31. In a true Perpetuum Mobile everything must, necessarily, go round together. There can be nothing involved in it which remains stationary on the axle.
32. The wheel's own inner force must come into being, without external momentum being applied
33. The internal structure of the wheel is designed in such a way that weights applied in accordance with the laws of Perpetual Motion, work, once a small impressed force has caused the commencement of movement, to perpetuate the said movement and cause the rotation to continue indefinitely
34. For this concept, my 'principle of excess weight' ... these weights are themselves the PM device, the 'essential constituent parts' which must of necessity continue to exercise their motive force (derived from the PM principle) indefinitely - so long as they keep away from the centre of gravity.
35. they are enclosed in a structure or framework, and coordinated in such a way that not only are they prevented from attaining their desired equilibrium or 'point of rest', but they must for ever seek it, thereby developing an impressive velocity which is proportional to their mass and to the dimensions of their housing.
36. It revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind, or springs.
37. Seen sideways or full face it is as glorious as a peacock's tail.
38. It turns to the right and to the left. It spins around in any direction whether laden or empty.
39. MT9... nothing is to be accomplished with his thing unless one acts out of my connectedness principle
40. MT10... the figure is not yet complete until I delineate it much differently at the appropriate place and indicate the correct handle-construction.
41. MT11... This figure is doubled, as one can see, and the form does not involve much, but there is more in it than meets the eye, as will be seen when I pull back the curtain and disclose the correct principle at the appropriate place, as mentioned previously.
42. MT14... What is objectionable about this model, what to learn from it and how it can and may be used, will all be treated later.
43. MT15... From this drawing alone, however, nothing of the prime mover's source can be seen or deduced although the figure shows the superior weight.
44. Bessler on the Toy's Page shows two hammer men toys with two men each. Each man swings a weight.
45. Bessler on the Toy's Page shows two hammer men toys with one swung to the right and one swung to the left.
46. Bessler on the Toy's Page shows what looks like a link chain on the far right side and what looks like a Jacob's Ladder toy on the right side and a scissor-jack on the left side
47. Bessler on the Toy's Page shows fat men swinging large short hammers against an anvil and skinny men swinging lighter long handled axes chopping wood.
48. Bessler on the Toy's Page shows the skinny men with twisted clothing
49. Bessler on the Toy's Page shows a toy top that will flip over, end for end when spun.
50. Due to the arrest, I burned and buried all papers that prove the possibility. However, I have left all demonstrations and experiments, since it would be difficult for anybody to see or learn anything about a perpetual motion from them or to decide whether there was any truth in them because no illustration by itself contains a description of the motion; however, taking various illustrations together and combining them with a discerning mind, it will indeed be possible to look for a movement and, finally to find one in them.

[daxwc]

Nick Quote:

The sole "clue" that Bessler left that seem's to be of any significance is the statement about weights working in pairs, and seeking to attain equilibrium but never managing to do so. Just my uninformed opinion.

Sure Nick pick the only clue he never said. The only time pairs come up in both books is in the following and read the last sentence, as he denounces it.

These come in pairs, such that, as one of them takes up
an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle.
Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing
places all the time. (This principle is in fact the one that Wagner
said he owed to me - but I was quite wrongly implicated, as I'd
never informed anyone about the matter.) AP pg 296

[jim_mich]

Daxwc, you should look at the whole paragraph. Bessler does say that his weights come in pairs, but he also says that he had never told Wagner this. He say that he had never informed anyone that the weights come in pairs. But he very clearly states that such is the case.

XLIII.

Are there any more doubting lions roaring around? Then let them come and sit down by me, and my wheel shall openly revolve for them. I've nothing to hide, for all the inmost parts, and the perpetual-motion structures, retain the power of free movement, as I've been saying since 1712. I'd like, at this point, to give a brief description of it. So then, a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, as its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that, as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle.Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time. (This principle is in fact the one that Wagner said he owed to me - but I was quite wrongly implicated, as I'd never informed anyone about the matter.) At present, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants can go on about the wonderful doings of these weights, alternately gravitating to the centre and climbing back up again, for I can't put the matter more clearly.

PS. My AP page numberings seem to be slightly different than others.

[preoccupied]

When the weights are sitting perpendicular and pushing on a lever from an arm attached like in the animations it can go partially down and be blocked and the lever can hold onto the position by a spring on the path down and around and maybe that is what puts the weights next to each other.

[daxwc]

I don’t agree Jim otherwise he wouldn’t be “quite wrongly implicated�. Bessler is doing his usual dance and my opinion what he really wants to slyly inject is “alternately gravitating to the centre and climbing back up again� meaning that it doesn’t work exactly in pairs but weights alternates, therefore bring about his “retain the power of free movement�.


I was searching to see if Stewart has retranslated it, but so far haven’t found it.

[jim_mich]

I was searching to see if Stewart has retranslated it, but so far haven’t found it.

See: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2190

[preoccupied]

This is what I meant in the animation. The spring pulls the arm towards the end of the first arm but has a locking mechanism so that when the weight is blocked on the perpendicular it locks the arm in a different position on the first arm. The reason the weights would be lined up one against the other like I meant in the previous post is because the weights would drop off when they are on top to a certain position. Obviously the animation is not complete because there is only one arm in use but I think it would fit and all that would need to be created would be a lock and release mechanism to make it functional.

[preoccupied]

This looks promising. If you could please tell me what you think about the animation.

[nicbordeaux]

Thank you Jim, that is a very useful list, and I won't point out that there are some quite contradictory statements because I don't want to cause any trouble.

3. seem's impossible unless the weights are being acted upon or moved in space by their being linked/attached to a revolving or otherwise moving device, for ex the wheel drum or spokes, in which case thay wouldn't gain force from their own movement alone. The only way that statement can be considered true within anything like the world as we know it is to take it as meaning : upon swinging, the weights trade pe for ke (after that, one may add any number of fictious forces). We'd also need to consider that bessler knew nowt (or pretended to be ignorant) of potential energy in the form of height of position gained by manual unput, eg didn't consider it as a force.

As to the swinging part, which you suggest may mean simply "movement", other than swinging, we have vertical travel, and a nice candidate, rotating (rather like a bolas, there again, no trouble making intended), possibly rotating supended from two strings forming an "x" so that rotation causes lift via shortening of the strings as they twine. I have done some experiments with this setup, and it could be that the force needed to prewind and shorten the string and then have the string pick up a weight and gain great force through unwind (force then used to lift another weight) is much lower than that needed to raise the weight by spinning it so that it itself twists the string and causes lift.

21 is a crucial one. Preponderance means advance. Or shorter time to reach destination.

Anyway, I'll save that list and look at it properly, no point in further ramblings ;-)

[preoccupied]

I had the right idea with my design and the animations BUT no weight drops. I didn't look at it correctly. I need the weights on the other side to help overbalance the wheel. when the first arm is at 90 degrees it is able to shift positions to a lower level and further away on the arm. So with 8 arms I need the wheel to be able to turn 45 degrees before it is blocked. So this next animation would show the major positions.

And thank you Jim_Mich for the list of clues. I don't own the book but I'm thinking about buying it.

[jim_mich]

21 is a crucial one. Preponderance means advance. Or shorter time to reach destination.

21. it runs according to 'preponderance', and turns everything else along with it; as long as its materials shall endure, it will revolve of its own accord.

The men and women of a jury decide guilt or innocence based upon the preponderance of evidence. In other words they judge based upon how much 'guilty' evidence there is verses how much 'innocence' evidence there is. Preponderance is a measuring of one force against another force. Many times this can mean the gravity difference between two weights. But it can also mean a difference between two forces. Bessler does not say if he means a preponderance of weight or a preponderance of force. Many assume a preponderance of weight. But I think Bessler was speaking of a preponderance of force.

But of course I'm probably wrong.

[murilo]

I had the right idea with my design and the animations BUT no weight drops. I didn't look at it correctly. I need the weights on the other side to help overbalance the wheel. when the first arm is at 90 degrees it is able to shift positions to a lower level and further away on the arm. So with 8 arms I need the wheel to be able to turn 45 degrees before it is blocked. So this next animation would show the major positions.

And thank you Jim_Mich for the list of clues. I don't own the book but I'm thinking about buying it.

Preoccupied,
sorry to say but I have the feeling that you NEVER built any true hard model, in wood, metal, plastic or whatever.

You see? In this forum we use to kick and ignore some physic laws, but you are ignoring some matter laws!

Your highly imagining mind fertility needs to be managed by practice, I guess... 8[
Best!
M.

[preoccupied]

On the bottom left of the previous design I lost weight pressing down on the lever because it is being blocked. So to counter this problem I decided to use only two weights at a time, working as a pair. On one side the weight will be being reloaded and on the other side the weight will be be falling. I will use a different size arm on the reload side and the arm will be closer to the axle on the first arm. So there are two arms attached to the first arm, a reload arm and a pressure for leverage arm. The arms don’t shift position in this design. This design has no flaws. It’s perfect. The fall starts at 90 degrees and at 45 degrees it gives up the weight and it is readied to be reloaded by a reload arm. This goes 45 degrees at a time.

[preoccupied]

I found an error in my design. I'm sorry I said it was perfect. I think 5 or 6 arms might work instead of 8 but it's so difficult to align 5 arms perfect degrees from each other in the inkscape program. I'm trying to draw pictures and visualize how it would work. I think I'm on the right track though with reloading with an arm closer into the axle on one side attempts.