The merry go round

[Richard]

<<<<<
<<<<< quack :)

[Alexioco]

Put a mass on the end of the stick.

pequaide, you are not helping matters! :-)

It is rather obvious here that Ealadha would be better offer to unplug his surge protector from the wall outlet and plug it into itself.

@ Alex,

If you want help from me, my suggestion is that you bail out of this and get your music lessons in order. Education, occupation and family priorities come before involvement with this nonsense.
Ralph

Thanks for the encouragement Ralph, I sometimes do need a kick up the bum lol Ill get on with it.

Speak soon

Alex

[pequaide]

Rlortie: you once gave us an Atwood’s machine site. So you should know what the prime mover is: it is an Atwood’s machine. When the massive quantity of momentum produced by an Atwood’s is then transferred to a mass on the end of a stick the energy produced would be more than enough to restart the Atwood’s.

Further: one of the primary proposals for the motive force of Bessler’s wheel has been masses on the end of a stick. I am frankly surprised by your antipathy for the discussion.

Can we get anywhere when people attach a brainstorming session, or demean a simple experiment?

[rlortie]

Pequade,

You have been harping on the Atwood machine since fur lined bath tubs were invented to keep the water warm. In all this time you have never give us an example of how it can be self sustaining or not take more energy to experiment with than it delivers.

I am more of a follower of Leonhard Euler, who with his own equations put the possibility of a gravity operated device in Question. When asked if it was possible he said that there was a high probability.

Euler force
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In classical mechanics, the Euler acceleration (named for Leonhard Euler) is an acceleration that appears when a non-uniformly rotating reference frame is used for analysis of motion and there is variation in the angular velocity of the reference frame's axes.
The Euler force is a fictitious force on a body that is related to the Euler acceleration by f = m a, where a is the Euler acceleration and m is the mass of the body. [1]
[edit] Euler acceleration
Its direction and magnitude is given by:

where:
&#969; is the angular velocity of the reference frame;
r is the radial distance of the point where the acceleration is measured from the axis of the rotation.
[edit] Euler force

where:
m is the mass of the object upon which this fictitious force is exerted.
[edit] Notes and references
1. ^ Jerrold E. Marsden, Tudor S. Ratiu (1999). Introduction to Mechanics and Symmetry: A Basic Exposition of Classical Mechanical Systems. Springer, p. 251. ISBN 038798643X.

This classical mechanics-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_force"
Categories: Classical mechanics stubs | Fictitious forces | Rotation
Hidden category

[Richard]

I am often humbled...and never waste the opportunity to learn from people more brilliant than myself....but then you knew that already.

[rlortie]

To test Euler's Math for angular acceleration and or momentum try the following;

Using a light weight lever and moderate weight (pendulum), attach the lever near the rim. Lever and weight length should be approximately 2/3rds the diameter of the wheel. With the pivot point at 12:00 place a stop near the rim at 2:45.

Let it fall clockwise, the weight and wheel will accelerate while the pendulum seems to lag inwardly (Hook Swing). When the lever hits the stop angular momentum takes effect and you will see an obvious gain in acceleration.

For farther input and research regarding this; make sure that the horizontal balance point of the lever/bob is on the descending side of the axle/fulcrum. I use EMT for levers as it is light (low counter torque) yet sturdy enough to fill the needs.

With a bit of tweaking, I have succeeded in getting 270 degrees of positive torque out of one lever/weight. Some may consider that being close to what Bessler referred to as' It will barely run with one cross bar'.

Adding more units does not help, when this thing stops, it stops, there is no inertial carry over nor does it turn backwards to a keel point.

Ralph

[Richard]

then I think I should look to an arrangement where acceleration can be (stolen) and converted to pe (probably closer to the axis of rotation where acceleration is greatest)

then I would use my stored pe to give me back the acceleration to get me over the hump.

the pendula might afford an exchange mediam for the swapping of ke and pe.

Here we fool friction into helping us..instead of our enemy friction now becomes our ally.

we can rock the car unstuck instead of one hard futile shove.

270 dg. with one lever jeepers Ralph...we gotta be getting close?

I should like to read and (possibly comprehend) Euler..as you have suggested...but I really am not that educated Ralph.

[Ealadha]

I asked the administrator to delete this thread because its obviously off topic , i could not delete all my posts , i tried to but it would not let me .

[Richard]

Ealahda...My apologies. on reflection I see that in analyzing some of the forces we did wander a bit off the trail..I'd not have been angered if you pointed it out to me before going through admin.

richard

[Jon J Hutton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypyuVG_lDro[/I

Here is an idea i stumbled on by accident 6 yrs ago Couldnt get it out of my mind so redid the test and made a short video. Here is the link. I bielieve it i besslers idea that will lead to the discovery. The mech is shown with just one arm

[nicbordeaux]

That is an interesting vid Jon, but I don't think it was Bessler's big secret. Did a load of trials with a limited travel by elastic band things (including weights on wheels), it didn't work so well. Here's one I did a vid of involving a greatly overweight double pendulum which wouldn't do more than 3/4 of a turn in any configuration without the elastic band controller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39il5nTCJgo

FWIW...

[Jon J Hutton]

Hello Nic,

Understand what you mean. I am not saying that this is the answer but I believe that it shows how it can be attained. Sorry for the quality of the video, since I took it with my cell it for some reason kicked the video sideways.

What is hard to see from the video but is happening is that the bob on the end of the pendulum, on the second rotation is level with the place that it came dislodged from (the 3 o-clock position)on the first rotation. In other words it is resetting itself......what I do not have is the mech that will hold it in place and hold it until the (1 o-clock)when it is most advantageous to the wheel.

The most revolutions I achieved with the setup in the video is 4 revs. If the arm could lock in place at tdc and a sufficient counter weight it would be possible to achieve at least 10 revs. With more arms the results would really be interesting. I am sure that what has to come into play also is sufficient weight of the wheel for flywheel effect.

[Ealadha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypyuVG_lDro[/I

Here is an idea i stumbled on by accident 6 yrs ago Couldnt get it out of my mind so redid the test and made a short video. Here is the link. I bielieve it i besslers idea that will lead to the discovery. The mech is shown with just one arm

Jon , i also believe it is besslers idea , i had a similar or nearly the same idea , which i explained on this thread here :
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 5694#85694

In the drawing in that thread the roundabout is horizontal .

Is the wheel vertical or at an angle in your video , Jon ? Its looks like it may be at 45 degrees , instead of vertical , in your video !

[Ealadha]

Did a load of trials with a limited travel by elastic band things (including weights on wheels),

Nicbordeaus , how many is a load ? a few ! Supposing Bessler had just done a few experiments and then gave up !
' a load ' is just not good enough . You have to do hundreds and more , work until your hands are bleeding and then you lie down and cry because you have not succeeded . The way Bessler done it .

[Jon J Hutton]

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 1359#31359

Here is the wm2d i did of this back in 2006