Ralph wrote:Whether it is like Bessler's or not remains irrelevant.
Exactly Ralph - you're not trying to replicate Bessler's wheel.
However, what Bessler's wheel was like is relevant to those trying to replicate it. Hopefully that answers your question, "what is to be gained debating how much...".
How does one prove that a running wheel design is a replicate of Bessler's?
We are having enough problems just proving that such a machine can be built. To prove that it is a 'replicate' once running could take as long as its taking to find a basic source of self-sustainability.
Yes Ralph, this is a difficult problem. But that is not a good reason to give up. We can understand the physical attributes of Bessler's wheel by analysing the various data. Defining the actual power of Bessler's wheel, despite all the smoke and mirrors, gives us greater insight into how Bessler may have powered his wheel. Once again you will probably not find this relevant because you are already convinced that Bessler powered his wheel with gravity (which might be the reason you are having problems).
I agree that gravity which is holding me in this chair is causing problems. I just cant seem to find the force to get up and into the shop or back to work on my remodel.
My excuse is, right now it is just to hot here to give a darn. Sitting over an air conditioner vent is more to my liking, at least it gives me time to prattle on. Who knows it may lead to something constructive for somebody!
Yes Bill I believe that if Bessler's wheel was genuine, it used gravity. Gravity to excite it at which time other sources may have been employed. I probably will never buy the idea that it ran on Cf or any other self producing force.
Update... the VB program that I bought on Ebay has been processed through the US postal service Sort Facility this morning, 2011-09-12, 12:25:00, in ALLEN PARK, MI. From there it must go through Lansing, MI and then to my local post office. I expect it to arrive tomorrow or the next day. I can then write VB programs to analyze the water screw and also again make animated pictures and such. This is assuming that I've not forgotten how to write VB code!
I agree with Ralph that other posts have determined power but this exercise in math is important too. My concern is not with how much water was pumped but why the significance of the drawing to begin with. I suspect it holds much more information than is apparent to the eye. For instance, why show a pump running with a rope that is reversed? If you offset a reversed rope, you adds resistance at the contacts points. A direct drive rope could have been illustrated by reversing the flights on the pump or simply turning the pump upside down (at least I believe this to be correct).
A direct drive system would have made more sense unless Bessler is trying to tell us something. What is he hiding behind the tub on the one arm that is hanging down? A rectangular pully on the pump does not make sense as it loosens and tightens the rope. Is he illustrating a cam at the bottom of the pump? Other inconsistencies?
Update... the VB program that I bought on Ebay was returned by the post office because it was addressed incorrectly. So I finally received it today. Now I need to install the software and try to remember how to write VB code, probably this weekend.
"OK, your average flow rate estimate is about 7 litres per screw revolution. That's 70 litres per minute at 10 RPM, or about 1.2 litres per second. Therefore, the wheel lifted 1.2 kg to a height of about 1 metre every second.
Work to lift 1.2 kg to a height of 1 metre per second is 12 Watts."
Bill
ALL THE WATER in the screw was being lifted at one time, so it was actually lifting the total weight of the water in the screw even though only a fraction of the total was being expelled each revolution.
Axel, in one second the pump rotated 1/6 turn (10 RPM). If the 12 feet long pump consisted of 12 screw spirals (debatable) then 1/6 turn would lift the total water volume about 1/2 inch. Therefore total screw water volume is lifted about 1/80 Metre per second.
Jim, have you conceded or are you still programming?
If there's no further argument on the matter then I propose revising the probable maximum output power of Bessler's Kassel wheel down to about 25 Watts.
