The summary of my latest studies

[path_finder]

Many thanks to all for the comments,
I apologize for my late answer, due to my new stay here in Kinshasa (DR-Congo) for one month.

For Jim_Mich,
There are several ways for a limitation of the path and for forbidden a full turn of the pendulum, in particular an extension of the rod across the pivot contacting the crossbar arm in the descending side.
What you are referring depends from so many parameters (size of the rod, value of the weight, position of the pivot, etc).
So far only some practical experiments can define the final good values.
May be I was lucky with my selection, but I did not observe this kind of phenomenon.

You are right with the point regarding the low level of torque in the area of 12:00.
The bob being very close from the center, the centrifugal force coming from the main wheel rotation is really low.
But don't forget - as explained in the drawing below - there are TWO centrifugal forces:
- the first (CF1 in the drawing) oriented on the main radius and passing through the bob's center (this one, very low at 12:00 when the bob is very close from the main center)
- the second (CF2 in the drawing) oriented on the pendulum circle path's radius, which pulls the bob outside of this circular path
This last CF2 force is the resultant of the weight W and the CF1 force.
And even if the CF1 is low at 12:00 the experiment shows a very quick tendance of the pendulum to leave the main radius: IMHO this is coming from the inertial force transmitted by the locking red pin (the bob is pushed by the main rotation).

Anyway, if you need more impulse at 12:00 for initiating the swing of the pendulum, there is another way: an mechanical inverter, transferring into the 12:00 locking pin the energy absorbed by the locking pin at 6:00 (like suggested by ruggerodk, thanks).
Unfortunately I have today no way here to complete my last assembly.

For memory and for those interested, I show hereafter in the second drawing the mechanism allowing the four disks (in light green) to keep always their original position during the rotation of the main wheel.
The center gear (in light red) is grounded. Its radius is R.
The rollers (in yellow) can have any size, and are located on the same plate than the green disks.
The green disks must have a radius of R.

[path_finder]

Although I posted first this topic into a private forum, it could be useful for any member interested by the cycloidal motion of the pendulum's bob. This is the reason why I duplicate it here, not founding an actual thread in relation with.


Surprisingly the most read picture of the forum is here (2578 times):
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 3502#53502
why? a very trivial drawing.

An interesting Web site, where you can reconstruct the MT137 drawing (Java plugin needed)
http://userpages.monmouth.com/~chenrich ... lling.html
Select the indicated values in the first drawing.
Many thanks to Mr Christopher J. Henrich

The second drawing is in relation with the previous one.
Click on the image for a proper animation.
Note the motion of the rod, and let's suppose a correct counterclockwise rotation of the whole image.

[path_finder]

On this animation note the impact effect:
the collision energy given at 6:00 is transmitted (like in the Newton's cradle) into the 12:00 weight, so far allowing a quick extraction from the center area for the weight (a solution for solving the pertinent problem presented by Jim_Mich and cited by ruggerodk).
If using the Firefox Web browser, for a better view, depress 8 times the [Ctrl][Shift][Plus] keys set.

[jim_mich]

Your post reminded me of these...

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=269
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=415
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=876
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=2304
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=2315
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=2337

[Bill_Mothershead]

Jim:

for the last one listed (2337) I am not sure what is happening
from 12:00 to 3:00. The rods seem to be extending outward
but how does it do that and why is it even necessary?

Looks good. Any of them have a chance of working?

[jim_mich]

Bill, that one (2337) has springs (shown as red, much like a red rubber band) that get stretched outward by CF and then they pull the weight back toward the pivot point when the CF gets weaker because of the more inward path. It takes the same amount of force and energy to lift the weights regardless of what path they take. None of them seem to work.

[daanopperman]

jim_mich ,

In your drawing id= 415 , you say the wheel is slowing fast . What I said before I say here again , reset from the other side . In your drawing the weights is coming up against the spring loaded flippers , slowing the wheel down or as you said it is eating up your energy . Also , as the weights is flipped over they are eating up more energy for they are pulling on the wheel and are accelerated by the spring in the wrong direction , as they are flipped over they slow the wheel down from 3 o clock If you place the spring anchor on the other side of the pendulum the pulling will accelerate the wheel in the intended direction , and you will not lose your input energy . Exchange the flippers with two rotating paddles driving the pendulums form behind , in this way you again do not loose your input energy for you are storing the energy in the wheel while flipping the pendulums . I do not have WM2 , I would have simmed it and gave you my results .

[AB Hammer]

PF

Interesting animation. But how how are you going to get the lift to make the hit? I don't see it happening in this configuration.

[path_finder]

Dear Jim_Mich,
Many thanks for refreshing our memory.
2005 was the year I started to look at the forum, but only as guest, so far not able to see your interesting ideas.

[Bill_Mothershead]

daanopperman:

In your drawing id= 415 , you say the wheel is slowing fast . What I said before I say here again , reset from the other side . In your drawing the weights is coming up against the spring loaded flippers , slowing the wheel down or as you said it is eating up your energy . Also , as the weights is flipped over they are eating up more energy for they are pulling on the wheel and are accelerated by the spring in the wrong direction , as they are flipped over they slow the wheel down from 3 o clock If you place the spring anchor on the other side of the pendulum the pulling will accelerate the wheel in the intended direction , and you will not lose your input energy . Exchange the flippers with two rotating paddles driving the pendulums form behind , in this way you again do not loose your input energy for you are storing the energy in the wheel while flipping the pendulums . I do not have WM2 , I would have simmed it and gave you my results .

You are seeing something (in your mind) that I cant quite see.
"paddles from behind"...sounds interesting.
Could you somehow sketch it? Please!

[nicbordeaux]

"paddles from behind". Think I may have inadvertently seen that movie on youtube when adult content filter was down.

[preoccupied]

looking at your work reminds me that double pendulums might be interesting to play with. I am working on a double pendulum idea now because of that. Thank you Path_Finder!

[daanopperman]

daanopperman:

In your drawing id= 415 , you say the wheel is slowing fast . What I said before I say here again , reset from the other side . In your drawing the weights is coming up against the spring loaded flippers , slowing the wheel down or as you said it is eating up your energy . Also , as the weights is flipped over they are eating up more energy for they are pulling on the wheel and are accelerated by the spring in the wrong direction , as they are flipped over they slow the wheel down from 3 o clock If you place the spring anchor on the other side of the pendulum the pulling will accelerate the wheel in the intended direction , and you will not lose your input energy . Exchange the flippers with two rotating paddles driving the pendulums form behind , in this way you again do not loose your input energy for you are storing the energy in the wheel while flipping the pendulums . I do not have WM2 , I would have simmed it and gave you my results .

You are seeing something (in your mind) that I cant quite see.
"paddles from behind"...sounds interesting.
Could you somehow sketch it? Please!

Bill ,

In the original drawing , the springs are pinned on the leading side of the wheel , in this drawing it is on the trailing side . The two red paddles are not fixed to the wheel but to the frame . If you look at the bottom paddle , it will be turning ccw to knock the pendulum past its center position and add momentum to the wheel , and when the pendulum is pulled into position on the wheel the spring will pull the wheel in the cw rotation so as not to hinder the rotation of wheel , it is a matter of action and reaction . The rotation of the paddles is proportional to the wheel rotation . Please forgive the bad sketch .

[justsomeone]

Quote from Nic.

"paddles from behind". Think I may have inadvertently seen that movie on youtube when adult content filter was down.

Come on Nic........Inadvertently?????

[daanopperman]

"paddles from behind". Think I may have inadvertently seen that movie on youtube when adult content filter was down.

nic ,

What the heart is full of , the mouth runneth over