Could the Kasselwheel be heard during the 54 day endurance test? Yes!

[John Collins]

I received an email asking why it was that there were no reports of any noise coming from the Kassel wheel during the long endurance test, and didn't this suggest that perhaps the wheel could not be heard because it wasn't really turning?

It's a fair question and in answering it I found some convincing arguments about other issues which occasionally come up for discussion, which seem to me to be entirely logical. Consider the situation - Wagner has just wagered that wheel cannot go for a full month, now let us jump forward to the long duration test. Having started the wheel, Karl has locked and sealed the door and placed a guard on the outside. Both Karl, and Bessler, intend to run the wheel for a month to shut Wagner up. Two weeks into the endurance test they opened the door of the room to see if all was well and wheel still turning.

At first sight this seems to support the theory that the wheel could not be heard nor seen once the door was shut, but if we now move along to the final opening of the door we find the wheel turning and it seems obvious to me that they must have been able to either hear it or see it, otherwise they would not know if they were wasting their time in waiting for nearly two months to see if the wheel was still running. They must have known it was turning, otherwise, if they could not see or hear it, and it had stopped or just broken down prior to their opening the door, they would not know when that had happened.

Opening the door after 54 days suggests they knew it was still turning before they opened it. QED they must have been able to see it or hear it and I think hear is the key. Read on.

They opened the door the first time after only a fortnight in order for Bessler to check if it was still functioning properly and was not in danger of breaking apart before the full month had been completed. After all he had never run his machine for that long before and must have been worried about whether it would withstand the wear and tear. But there is another aspect to this that should convince anyone that the wheel could be heard, not just outside the room, but possibly all over the castle.

Fischer von Erlach told us that the wheel turned at 26 RPM when unloaded. That is very roughly 2 seconds per turn. He told us that he could hear the sound of about eight weights landing gently on the side towards which the wheel turned. That works out at four sounds of weights landing every single second!

Wolff told us that the weights were about four pounds each and that conveniently for us translates to a four pound sledge hammer. We don't know how Bessler's weights acted but if they were mounted on a short lever, rod - or sledge hammer handle, then the wheel was receiving a pounding from four sledge hammers every second for almost two months. No wonder Bessler wanted to inspect his wheel after only two weeks; he didn't know if it might fall apart in another day or two!

If you've ever wielded a four pound sledge hammer you will know how much power lies in even a short swing. Erlach said the weights landed 'gently', which to me suggests a heavy weight impacting after a very short travel, but it would still shake the structure and four of those every second would require some reinforcement to stop the whole thing being shaken to pieces, and that is why I think this wheel differed from the Merseberg wheel.

He designed it to to turn more slowly to reduce the number of impacts of the weights over a period of time, and he considerably strengthened the
construction, hence the extra width, three inches more on each side. He might have slowed the wheel down by reducing the amount of travel the weights made, or he might just have reduced the size or number of the weights, but I prefer the former idea because the wheel retained the power to lift the same heavy weights when compared to the Merseberg wheel.

JC

[daxwc]

Heh, JC when you were gone on a holiday awhile back we discussed this.


Stewart Quote:

daxwc wrote:
There was a report that you could hear it run the whole time, remember the man who went to see it but only got to hear it run in the castle.

jim_mich wrote:
I am unaware of any such report. Do you have a source?

I think daxwc is referring to Meetsma's testimony in DT. It's in old Dutch and I've had a stab at translating it but it needs more work and I don't have time to research it further at the moment...

Here's the original text:

Op't PERPETUMEUBILLE, geinventeert
door de Heer Raad ORFFYREUS, en van syn
WelEdele Kunstlievende gemaakt op het
Slot Wysensteyn by Cassel.

EEn selve Gewicht, te maaken swaar en licht.
Licht en swaar te maaken syn Wonder-raare Saken!

Te Meer in eennen Rond;
Seer dichte toegeslooten, soo aardiglick gestooten,
Om op syn As te drayen, ja rechts en lincks te swayen,
Waarlyck een schoone Vond.

Ik heb den Ganck gehoort:
Doch heb het niet gesien, ten Proev van yder een;
Was't door de Vorst versegeld, om den Loop wel geregeld,
Te brengen immer voort.

De Kunst die is gewis;
Ik kan het vast betoge, voor Leege en voor Hooge,
Dit's myn Getuigenis.

G.M. Meetsma.

...and my rough translation ('/' separates possible word choices):

On the PERPETUUM MOBILE, invented
by Mr. Councillor ORFFYRE, and made by his/its
honourable art-lover in
Castle Weissenstein at Cassel.

A self/same weight, to make heavy and light.
Light and heavy to make his strange thing!

The sea/lake/more* in a/one round/circle;
very sealed shut, so nicely/curiously thumped/bumped/knocked,
to turn around upon its axle, indeed to swing/turn to the right and to the left,
truly a beautiful invention.

I have heard the run/movement:
however have not seen it, at the test/inspection of everyone;
it was sealed up by the prince, in order to always produce/foster,
the well regulated run.

The art is genuine;
I can firmly assert it, solemnly/by_all_that_is_holy,
this is my testimony.

G.M. Meetsma.

* I think the majority of it makes sense but I'm really struggling with this line. 'Meer' has a capital first letter indicating it's a noun. 'Meer' as a German noun means sea/lake etc., but I can't find any other meaning in Dutch as a noun, although it can also mean 'more' in Dutch, but I wouldn't have thought it would be capitalised if it meant that. I'll let you know when I figure it out, or if anyone can help then please let me know.

Stewart

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... e&start=30

[rlortie]

Daxwc,

The sea/lake/more* in a/one round/circle;

A search on my part concludes that the word 'Meer' also translates to 'Boundary'... Such as; Bound in one round/circle very sealed shut,

Meer; is possibly old French for sea.

Ralph

[nicbordeaux]

Which would make Meer a periphery, or "rim" ...

[Michael]

John wrote;

about eight weights landing gently

John wrote;

But there is another aspect to this that should convince anyone that the wheel could be heard, not just outside the room, but possibly all over the castle.

Were the castle walls made of paper?

Edit.
Forgive my bluntness.

[daxwc]

Quote:

Fischer von Erlach stated that 'the sound of about eight weights may be heard landing gently on the side toward which the wheel turned'.

Guess it depends on your definition of gentle and maybe which wheel.

[daxwc]

JC , what exactly is 'Orffyreana' and its origins?

[John Collins]

Thanks daxwc, I must have missed that one.

Michael, why would you say that? I would think that a four pound sledge hammer striking something four times a second for almost two months would reverberate quite a distance, maybe not throughout the whole castle but I thought you might get the point I was making, which was that the wheel must have been heard outside the room.

The library at Kassel lumped together all of Bessler's MT papers in a box labelled Orffyreana. Words with the suffix 'ana' indicate a collection relating to the root part of the word. I think it was used initially to describe a collection of sayings, gossip, etc. connected with a person or place, in the early 18 th century.

JC

[rlortie]

http://orffyreana.org/

[John Collins]

Stewart's website.

[eccentrically1]

this is the thread dax found, you replied just after the discussion; to the Peter the Great question
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... tion#89605

[daxwc]

Just the “Bessler's MT papers� or all documentation of Bessler owned by them?

[daxwc]

JC quote:

They opened the door the first time after only a fortnight in order for Bessler to check if it was still functioning properly and was not in danger of breaking apart before the full month had been completed. After all he had never run his machine for that long before and must have been worried about whether it would withstand the wear and tear.

I believe there is documentation to the effect that this was a surprise inspection, meaning Bessler was summonsed and they opened the door to inspect the room.

[daxwc]

I like to try to experience the wheel as much as possible. Open up the sound video and one visual video in different windows, then you can listen to 200 beats per minute and a wheel doing around 26 rpm at the same time; puts things in perspective for me anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c1cx-q8b60 The sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpZSNHB_P_M the visual



or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoctKzqzBSU The visual



Must have been bloody annoying after 54 days… the cost of free energy; noise pollution ;))

[John Collins]

Bessler's files were held in different places dependent on where he was at the time they were made, so MT was at Kassel and the folder has the word Orffyreana written on it. Other records elsewhere don't have that word attached. Some were at Brandenburg, some at Leipzig, some at Annenburg, some at Karlshafen, others in other places. The Peter the Great files were in St Petersburg. I don't recall seeing the word Orffyreana applied to any of these.

JC