This patented under water device has brought a wry smile to my face as it is almost identical to a design I drafted 7 years ago.
Instead of the flipping tank I used two opposing pistons, and the generator was placed at the point where the pumped water breaks the surface, rather than the outflow being fed into the reservoir.
Whether it was misguided or not, the intention was to utilise the pressure differential of air at sea level and that of water at depth. If I recall correctly, there was a snorkel down to the sunken device which introduced ambient air pressure to one side of a piston, this depressurised that water. To the other side of the head was deep sea pressure .
The other piston head had deep water pressure both sides. This state alternated from side to side, thus allowing the pistons to pump water up a separate chamber to the surface.
The control of this high pressure water was facilitated by a directional control value which was linked to the pistons' rocker arm.
As I said though, didn't get past a computer generated simulation, except on one occasion where I mocked up two pistions and pressure tested. I covered the kitchen in water, which had red food dye in it !! My wife went ape lol
Chris
Spiteri
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re: Spiteri
Is he the same inventor?
http://gravitywheel.info/gravity-engine/
http://gravitywheel.info/gravity-engine/
I cannot imagine why nobody though on this before, including myself? It is so simple!...
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triplock
re: Spiteri
Thanks Pathfinder for that link.
Probably unintentionally, but That is, by far, the best laugh I have had in a long time :-D
Chris
Probably unintentionally, but That is, by far, the best laugh I have had in a long time :-D
Chris
re: Spiteri
Hi Tarsia 79,
As my copy of the Spiteri plans was pretty indecipherable I worked my design from what I thought his were. Maybe they are not the same. I like to work things out from first principles that I understand ;)
Air in a closed container at the top like an air bell will compress to the average of the depth of the vessel. Use this pressure to push water in a flexible container via a tube to another flexible empty container at a higher level. This does not affect the balance of the unit. Use the reduction in volume of the air chamber via a 'piston' head to the bellows to both drive a small piston pump and move a weight sufficient to over balance the unit to reset it. The air is not released and will return to its original volume when the system resets/ overbalances
Every volume of water moved reduces the amount of air required and therefore the weight of the counterbalance required. This is the 'secret', where a system without shifting the water can never work without work done to reset it, the counterbalance of the air (water volume equivalence) alone requires exactly the same work / foot lbs to move the counterbalance
Try a simple experiment. Cut the bottom off a small soft drink bottle, fix a balloon filled with water to a tube, thread the tube through from the bottom of the container out the top, thread the cap with a hole and some sealant down from the top and screw on. Hold the tube vertically and push the unit down vertically into 2 ft or so of water. The water will be pushed out of the tube to any level above the top of the bottle or in the air -- with a restricted outlet to almost the depth of water up in the air. You should put a twist of plastic flyscreen up the tube end in the ballon or it may fold over the end and seal it off.
The amount of air is not critical in the design, only that less is better in a full working model, even a slightly larger balloon surrounding the water filled one will work.
The whole idea relies on the fact that gas is compressible and water isn't to any extent, Spiteri's design must use this fact, the mere fact that the air moves against water pressure shows this.
I use compressed air to move water from the bottom of 180' well, as soon as the air pressure in the air pipe reaches the same as the static head of water pressure it starts rising up the outlet pipe to the tank, 20' above the well head and 60' away, not quite the same principle but it keeps expanding as the pressure reduces which is why the air pushes the water out of the balloon, and the little experiment would not work without that film of air.
This is a new idea, don't fall into the trap of using existing data to disprove it before trying some experiments. I learnt this the hard way, 2 years before John Cockcroft invented the hovercraft I proposed using air jets under a flat platform to move heavy weights. The engineer I was working under quoted me a physics law that said that it would need an impossible amount of horsepower to work. I recently saw four hair dryers supporting a man on a Utube science DIY experiment!
As my copy of the Spiteri plans was pretty indecipherable I worked my design from what I thought his were. Maybe they are not the same. I like to work things out from first principles that I understand ;)
Air in a closed container at the top like an air bell will compress to the average of the depth of the vessel. Use this pressure to push water in a flexible container via a tube to another flexible empty container at a higher level. This does not affect the balance of the unit. Use the reduction in volume of the air chamber via a 'piston' head to the bellows to both drive a small piston pump and move a weight sufficient to over balance the unit to reset it. The air is not released and will return to its original volume when the system resets/ overbalances
Every volume of water moved reduces the amount of air required and therefore the weight of the counterbalance required. This is the 'secret', where a system without shifting the water can never work without work done to reset it, the counterbalance of the air (water volume equivalence) alone requires exactly the same work / foot lbs to move the counterbalance
Try a simple experiment. Cut the bottom off a small soft drink bottle, fix a balloon filled with water to a tube, thread the tube through from the bottom of the container out the top, thread the cap with a hole and some sealant down from the top and screw on. Hold the tube vertically and push the unit down vertically into 2 ft or so of water. The water will be pushed out of the tube to any level above the top of the bottle or in the air -- with a restricted outlet to almost the depth of water up in the air. You should put a twist of plastic flyscreen up the tube end in the ballon or it may fold over the end and seal it off.
The amount of air is not critical in the design, only that less is better in a full working model, even a slightly larger balloon surrounding the water filled one will work.
The whole idea relies on the fact that gas is compressible and water isn't to any extent, Spiteri's design must use this fact, the mere fact that the air moves against water pressure shows this.
I use compressed air to move water from the bottom of 180' well, as soon as the air pressure in the air pipe reaches the same as the static head of water pressure it starts rising up the outlet pipe to the tank, 20' above the well head and 60' away, not quite the same principle but it keeps expanding as the pressure reduces which is why the air pushes the water out of the balloon, and the little experiment would not work without that film of air.
This is a new idea, don't fall into the trap of using existing data to disprove it before trying some experiments. I learnt this the hard way, 2 years before John Cockcroft invented the hovercraft I proposed using air jets under a flat platform to move heavy weights. The engineer I was working under quoted me a physics law that said that it would need an impossible amount of horsepower to work. I recently saw four hair dryers supporting a man on a Utube science DIY experiment!
re: Spiteri
To whoever tried to post me a private email, try again as I got the notification but there is nothing in the inbox.
re: Spiteri
Still working on a working model of the Spiteri type pump, so far so good.
While looking up various pumps I came across three that work on pressure waves, Bellocq water wave, Bodine, acoustic deep well pump, Bently, sonic pressure wave pump. They all raise water from deep wells with far less energy than normal displacement pumps, the last one of the above used a small solar panel driving a sewing machine size motor to raise water from a 4000ft well!
That got me thinking, even the least efficient one was getting 17 times the piston displacement of water with each stroke to the surface (the Bellocq), so why not pump water to a small high reservoir and pipe the water to a pelton wheel/generator set-up and recycle? Even with losses there should be plenty of surplus energy.
Details of the patents can be found at rexresearch.com under Bellocq, Toribio.
While looking up various pumps I came across three that work on pressure waves, Bellocq water wave, Bodine, acoustic deep well pump, Bently, sonic pressure wave pump. They all raise water from deep wells with far less energy than normal displacement pumps, the last one of the above used a small solar panel driving a sewing machine size motor to raise water from a 4000ft well!
That got me thinking, even the least efficient one was getting 17 times the piston displacement of water with each stroke to the surface (the Bellocq), so why not pump water to a small high reservoir and pipe the water to a pelton wheel/generator set-up and recycle? Even with losses there should be plenty of surplus energy.
Details of the patents can be found at rexresearch.com under Bellocq, Toribio.
re: Spiteri
For anyone who doesn't understand how the Spiteri is supposed to work, here are pictures from a document off his website that I have (poorly) coloured. They show 3 stages of the "lift" before it topples over. It is actually designed to lift at an angle, but the ratio of lift to weight won't change.
The two different blues are "inside and outside water",and the white sections are air. Part of the frame lifts with the device. Surrounding the expanding and contracting upper and lower sections are bellows. These are supposed to separate the pressures between inside and outside water.
1s: it has just toppled, and is about to lift
2s: half way through lift
3s: full lift, and apparently OB ready to topple.(LOL)
The two different blues are "inside and outside water",and the white sections are air. Part of the frame lifts with the device. Surrounding the expanding and contracting upper and lower sections are bellows. These are supposed to separate the pressures between inside and outside water.
1s: it has just toppled, and is about to lift
2s: half way through lift
3s: full lift, and apparently OB ready to topple.(LOL)
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re: Spiteri
uses buoyancy as a factor in the system line
that's what i predicted in other threads here
IF one could make a system work
don't HAVE to use buoyancy if you can find something else to take on the same role providing that extra impetus required besides just straight gravity
because just tricking straight gravity with a gizmo will never work
as many have pointed out
but buoyancy IS one thing one can use
that's what i predicted in other threads here
IF one could make a system work
don't HAVE to use buoyancy if you can find something else to take on the same role providing that extra impetus required besides just straight gravity
because just tricking straight gravity with a gizmo will never work
as many have pointed out
but buoyancy IS one thing one can use
Last edited by Dwylbtzle on Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: re: Spiteri
can't get anything on that site to come up except a listpath_finder wrote:Is he the same inventor?
http://gravitywheel.info/gravity-engine/
and when you click on anything in the list it keeps saying NOT FOUND
oh
i think i GIT it
THAT's the funny, right?
:{?
good one
ya got me good there