Mayday! Mayday!!!

[Clarkie]

Has anyone given any though to JB's reference to an inner wheel - drum- mill stone? Are there any clues to how big it was in relation to the diameter of the wheel?

Pete.

[path_finder]

Dear raj,
Congratulations for doing the job twice and so far to confirm my animation.
How do you believe I built it?
Saving a lot of time, after a download of: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 7995#97995,
you can use the 'gifsicle' software (working either on windows and linux), and since the March 26th you can get very easily all successive images, seeing the details of the path. I can also upon demand, publish a *.zip file with all these elementar steps.

Anyway as I wrote above:

The most difficult is to arrange everything for keeping the position at the right angle during all the rotation process (avoiding the keeling).

There are several mechanical designs giving the same apparent and optical advantage.
So long any mechanism has not been discovered (and tested) for assuming the permanent position at 3:00, we can still continue to discuss, but the final solution will be far.

edited:
For those working under windows:
http://www.lcdf.org/gifsicle/gifsicle_1 ... TALLER.zip
For those working under Linux:
sudo apt-get gifsicle or sudo yum install gifsicle

[raj]

Path_Finder,
I apologise for being unable to understand which weight at the 3 o'clock position you are refering to.
In my last drawing, the weight hangs at 16 positions on the wheel's rims.
Can you kindly and clearly tell at which number position, the problem with weight movement will be encountered and why?

I shall be grateful for your best explanation.

Thanks again,

Raj[/quote]

[raj]

From the very beginning of this gravity wheel concept, I am not happy with the position of the weight hanging at number 10 on the wheel in my drawing above just after passing the 12 o'clock position i.e hanging at number 9 on the rims.

I strongly feel the weight position change from hanging at number 9 to hanging at number 10 as in my drawing above is WRONG.
But I know how to rectify the whole thing.

I await to here from you, where you expect problem with weight movements.

Raj

[rlortie]

Has anyone given any though to JB's reference to an inner wheel - drum- mill stone? Are there any clues to how big it was in relation to the diameter of the wheel?

Pete.

Hello Pete,

Yes, I have gave much thought as well as building a couple of designs using this reference; "Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum" Johann Bessler, Kassel, 1719, pp. 16-23 which was written by Al Bacon, Translation by Ted of Chicago, both names being pseudonyms. which also has in its header; "Note: The following is one of many possible translation of the old German text, the details are disputed".

I am currently in ongoing contact with aka Al Bacon, his rendition and/or translation Is overlooked by this forum often being shunned in favor of Johns version.

I find no reference as to the diameter of this 'inner wheel' in relation to the drum it allegedly fits in.

I believe the translation deserves more credence than received. The design (which I am building) being discussed on this thread is a prime example.

Ralph

[Clarkie]

Thanks Ralph,

Found it, "disk or narrow drum". Shame there is no indication of its diameter but it all helps.

latest iteration gathering pace, confidence building, if only the bloody day job would stop interfering. 61 yo tomorrow but no chance of retiring soon.

Pete.

[rlortie]

Raj,

You wrote to P-F,

Can you kindly and clearly tell at which number position, the problem with weight movement will be encountered and why?

I am not P-f, but In the lower right quarter at pivot point #4 is where you start running in into loss of Ke and Inertia.

In the upper right quadrant at pivot point #10 running to pivot #10 on the inner wheel you have a mechanical stress problem due to the acute angle of the lever 'attack' pivot point. Where as both wheels are turning at a 50% ratio this is not as bad as it looks in a static mode.

Ralph

[rlortie]

Well!

Happy Birthday Pete! 61 years the day after Easter, heck man, you are still a young spring bloomer.

With the economy in the shape it is in, I find that most are not retiring until they reach the early 70's and then go to work at Walmart (Asda in UK) as a 'greeter' and shop lifter lookout. For a man of your background you might consider replacing Andy Clarke as CEO.

Ralph

[raj]

Ralph!
Thank you.
You got a load off my mind.

If your analysis is correct, then I, now, think that WE are on to something.

KE lost at pivot point #4 is normal as the weight is at the ascending side, but this counter-torque cannot negate the clockwise torques by 2/3 weights in lower right quadrant.
At least, this is what I think.

Raj

[rlortie]

Raj,

As per Path_Finder and Alan's debate, to much emphasis is placed on position of weights and not the connectivity.

Ralph

[path_finder]

Dear raj,
Don't be focused on the 3:00 position, this is just a global way for me to specify the optimal position for any overbalance in a clockwise rotating wheel.
You will find hereafter the details of my animation.
These 24 images are in relation with a rotation step by step of 7,5 grades each.
I give here only the half of the animation content (the second half is the same, excepted the inversion of the colors).
The main wheel is in red and is NOT a drum: as you can see sometime the weight overpasses the rim, what is not abnormal, being still attached to its two linkage points.

If you have asked me earlier, you would have got the path of the weight immediately.
I think your drawing gives the same results. I'm not surprised: this is just some geometry.

[AB Hammer]

Weight placement is very important as well as the connectivity. Like in PF's picture blocks for the first picture block you are depending on the center wheel to drive the outer in the for 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 frames, then the outer wheel takes over for frame 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 then it goes back to the center wheel for it is having to lift the weight due to the center wheel needing to go faster. This is why I chose to redesigned it for optimum weight effect allowing the outer wheel to truly drive the center. This is where it may have a chance from my viewpoint.

[path_finder]

Dear Alan,
The constraints on the inner wheel you are mentioning, can be aliased very easily by doubling or multiplying by four the same concept.

[path_finder]

as said in the precedent post.

[raj]

Path_Finder!
Thank you again friend.

I don't know what all this really mean.

But I am overwhelmed to watch your animation of my gravity wheel concept.

Raj