HYdrogen generator/buoyancy motor??

[Mangyhyena]

This is the off topic section, and a hydrogen generator/buoyancy motor combo is about as off topic from gravity motor attempts as you can get, so here goes nothing.

If you use electrolysis to produce hydrogen, more energy (electricity) goes into the machine than the energy (hydrogen) you get out. Despite the efforts of so many who attempt to replicate Stanley Meyer's work, let's for the sake of this post go with the premise that you get less hydrogen out than the electricity you put in.

Now, is there any byproduct of hydrogen that is being wasted with current hydrogen production methods, something we think of as useless toward powering the process?

The two byproducts of electrolysis are hydrogen (useful fuel) and oxygen (useless for energy production)

Is there any way to use the oxygen produced to help power the electrolysis? Apparently, though oxygen is flamable, we can't feed the oxygen into a motor (generator) in order to run that motor. No, I don't understand why that can't work, but I figure it can't work because no one has done it yet. If we could run an engine on pure oxygen, the kind that is labeled flamable on the tanks in hospitals, then someone would have tried it by now, right? Right? So, we'll drop that as an idea to make the oxygen byproduct generate a portion of the power required for electrolysis. (please, someone who knows about motors jump in here and tell us that a ICE motor can be made to run on pure oxygen as its fuel. Pretty please.)

Any other way to make oxygen do useful work? Well, the last time I checked, oxygen, when submerged, floats to the surface in bubbles. When we have movement, we have an opportunity to produce power.

I'd propose using the oxygen produced/freed during electrolysis to run a buoyancy motor. The buoyancy motor would run a generator/alternator to provide power, or at least a portion of the required power, for electrolysis.

At the least, using the oxygen produced/released during electrolysis to power a buoyancy motor should improve the ratio of electricity required from the grid for hydrogen production to the amount of hydrogen obtained from electrolysis.

I'm sure a buoyancy motor could be constructed in a large tank of water, electrolysis done beneath the tank, resulting hydrogen stored while resulting oxygen fed through a hose into bottom of tank to power the buoyancy motor, which powers a generator, which powers electrolysis.

Does this make sense, or does it sound unworkable? A buoyancy motor is very similar to a gravity motor, it just works in reverse of gravity, since the bubbles rise in the water, rather than fall to the ground. The biggest problem with a buoyancy motor is that it requires more energy to pump air to the bottom of one than the buoyancy motor can produce when the pumped air rises back to the surface. Sound familiar? Gravity motors are difficult to run because it takes more energy to lift a weight than you gan get back when the weight is dropped.

By running electrolysis beneath the buoyancy motor, there is no need to pump air to the bottom of the buoyancy motor. The resulting oxygen from electrolysis would be piped up to the buoyancy motor, which would power the buoyancy motor.

Interesting approach or am I way off base with this?

[jim_mich]

Something like this?

[Tarsier79]

Pressure at depth will make the amount of buoyancy an issue, as the hydrogen and oxygen will have to be at a pressure that will push the water out of the way, and therefore will be much more dense itself. Also in a tall thin container, it will have to lift the water displaced to the equivalent of its depth.

I believe (but I could be wrong) that at higher pressures, O2 and H2 will also dissolve back into the water more readily. And due to this, I also wonder if there is a depth at which the gases exist separately only between the energised electrodes.

[Mangyhyena]

Jim_mich, is that machine in operation yet? It looks brilliant. What is the progress on it? Makes my idea look like a child's toy.

Then again, just because it's a good idea doesn't mean any company will implement it. If we wanted to put the ocean to work producing energy, we would use the motion of the waves, temperature difference between the water and air, currents, tides, winds, and sun all on one platform. The energy could be stored as hydrogen. Yes, more-energy-in-than-comes-out hydrogen. Why not, seeing as how the energy required for electrolysis would come from several natural resources no one has to pay for?

No, I'm not bitter. :)

[terry5732]

Oxygen is not flammable despite the labels you see