A theory about why the number five is so prominent in Johann Bessler's works.

[Zhyyra]

Sorry Robinhood, my bad, it's my spelling error (not typing error).
And I don't mind you pointing that out to me. I hope you are not trying to be sarcastic by including intentional errors in your own spelling. If you are just trying to be funny then it's fine.
And I typed "Kruez" not "kruez".

A sharp in music is the adjacent notes' flat. On the common modern day keyboard they are represented by the black keys. There are some notes on the keyboard that do not have a sharp and some that do not have a flat.
They are the white notes that have no black keys between them.

Zhy

[Zhyyra]

Thankyou JB. I'm away from home and not at my computer. And it's pop-up keyboard sucks. I mean where the hell is # on this thing. And a post takes forever to write. Lol.

[johannesbender]

in music theory its much more complicated than my understanding of it.

but notes are at a "distance" from each other , intervals , half steps and whole steps.

not all natural notes ABCDEFG are whole steps apart , but most are.

between two notes whole step apart , theres a note that would be called a sharp or flat note.

what makes a note be called a sharp note is if it is higher in pitch than the previous , and what makes it being called a flat is if its lower in pitch than the previous .

they are related kind of like your example , except it would be more like

1 , 1# and 2b, then 2.
or 1 , 1.5# and 1.5b , 2

where: 1# and 1.5# are named such because it relates relatave to 1 , and 2b and 1.5b are named such because it relates relative to 2

[Zhyyra]

Thanks for that JB.

The # symbol is also scribbled on some of Bessler’s MT drawings and it is also the geometric configuration of the hammer-men toys.

Zhy

[Robinhood46]

Sorry Robinhood, my bad, it's my spelling error (not typing error).
And I don't mind you pointing that out to me. I hope you are not trying to be sarcastic by including intentional errors in your own spelling. If you are just trying to be funny then it's fine.
And I typed "Kruez" not "kruez"
Zhy

I'm all for spelling mistakes and typing errors, i think every forum should have them.
I only picked up on that word being spelled differently because it is that word that is the focus of the subject. 99.9% sure it was a mistake wasn't enough, so i checked.
I found curious that "kreuz" had a specific meaning in music.
I remember reading many years ago a book that was refering to some of the teachings of G,I, Gurdjieff. I found it to be a fascinating approache to many aspects of life. There was a particular section, which i couldn't fully grasp, even what the man was trying to say. My total lack in the understanding of music, i think, being the reason.
The theory was that everything in the universe, at every scale, is affected by the same universal laws. I am sharing his theory, not mine, or at least what i can remember of it.
Any action that is happening can only happen for so long before there is an interuption in the action. For something to go on continually there is need for an impulse at the points where there is the interuption. All this was explained in detail by using music. I certainly got the impression that someone who understood music would know what the hell he is talking about. Rising octaves have gaps (or something like that) and the gaps need to be bridged (crossed) to keep things in the same direction.
Musical notes aren't things that were picked because they make a nice sound. They are what they are for a reason. The explaination of why music is how it is, was, in his view an explaination as to why things happen in the universe in the way that they do.
Bessler had an excellent understanding of music and he also studied esoterisme. I am sure it would of made a lot more sense to him than it did to me.
I would be interested to know in what way kreuz has a special meaning when written with a capital k.

[Zhyyra]

"Robinhood46"]I would be interested to know in what way kreuz has a special meaning when written with a capital k.

Well Robinhood, this is what I think could be a particular meaning if Bessler was trying to hint that "Kreuz" was special.

It may be a motion and not a geometrical structure or artifact that he is alluding to. The "cross" being a motion of weight crossing from one side of the vertical axis of the wheel to the other. Perhaps in a swinging fashion but perhaps in another fashion too.

I'm sure you get what I mean but, here's another example:

Lucky Luke: Lets drive the cattle to the river, let them drink and we will set up camp. We will make the cross in the morning.

Zhy

[Robinhood46]

If the cattle walk in single file to the camp by the river, the line can stop as a line when the first one reaches the river and they all wait their turn in line to cross the river, or they can all group together in the camp and when one leaves the camp to cross the river another in the wiating line can enter the camp.

[Georg Künstler]

its nice,
#. it is still a octagon, a crooked window.

A construction where the COG is shifted sidewards.

[Robinhood46]

Georg,
That is not nice.
It took me years to convince myself that moving "shapes" laterally was not the answer.
Would you please refrain from sharing excellent clues that indicate that it could well be.
Joking aside.
If you were to use something along the lines of my photos of when i had only five sections on a wheel, it may be worth trying shifting the # laterally with the one way swing of the weights. The length of the arms holding the weights would allow "maybe" to use leverage to shift laterally a central mass early enough to overcome the problems i had encounted with all my tries.
I think this would certainly imply the need for the weights to be on curved arms.