BUOYANCY

[ovyyus]

and sat mumbling and drooling writing blithering cryptic poems in the dark about it till he died a madman

i just don't see all that for a hoax

Bessler didn't die a madman.

Bessler had a remarkable and fortune filled life. He elevated himself from potential chronic poverty and drudgery. He died on the job as an architect and builder. All largely the result of his 'true perpetual motion' notoriety. Some people murder for less.

[Dwylbtzle]

well, i wasn't there
but it's been said he "went mad"--so perhaps he got cured before he died

He died on the job as an architect and builder. All largely the result of his 'true perpetual motion' notoriety. Some people murder for less.

i don't understand those sentences


***************

my only point was that people don't drive themselves to madness because their hoaxy scam didn't pull in any lucrative dupes

[Dwylbtzle]

wait--are you saying he got some good jobs because no-one believed he was real--but they decided to hire him anyway
for his notoriety?
and then he tripped and fell off a roof, while on one of these jobs, and broke his neck, or something?

i like my speculation better
hehe

just writing cryptic poems about yer hoaxy scam for years is kinda crazy

********************

anyway...
it's hundreds of years gone
from either of us
so who knows
but
i see reports, from the time, of:
"he became mad"

then i see (maybe) a guy grumbling on some roof because, in those days,
they didn't take care of some guy (for the rest of his life) just because he
walks into a doctor's office and says: "hi, i'm a notorious fraudulent
criminal scammer and i'm having bipolar mood swings and bad dreams
AND YOU KEEP THINKING BAD THOUGHTS ABOUT MEEEEEEE!"
So he still needed to work or STARVE
so someone gives him a crappy minimum wage job (one gilder per month or something):
"hell, let's hire the schmuck--then we can always say the famous crazy scammer helped build this barn"
and he's kinda addled in the head-
and he forgot to take his medication, that morning
(because they didn't HAVE any medication)-
-and he's thinking about how rich he could be
except everyone's calling him a fake
and if he blabs, to prove it's real--he gets ripped off
and someone ELSE gets all the money and fame and power
and he can't stand the thought of THAT
and he's getting pisseder and pisseder
so he starts to hammer real hard (from sheer rage)
and he isn't paying attention because he's always trying to think of more lines of poetry
and he whacks his thumb and jumps up and screams, "AHHHH!"
and falls off the roof
and breaks his neck

that ranks almost as high (for credibility) as the one historical account we have that the battle of Agincourt ever took place
in my book
hehe

\no?


ok--well maybe not THAT credible--but still...

[ovyyus]

my only point was that people don't drive themselves to madness because their hoaxy scam didn't pull in any lucrative dupes

Bessler's 'true PM' activity rewarded him with an excellent job, position, considerable financial reward, property, etc. He achieved all this without ever having to publicly disclose his secret. That takes genius.

[Dwylbtzle]

genius scamming ability is all very admirable
a rare and useful talent in this world, i'm sure

but it's also possible he was right when he said a child could understand how it works

of course, either could be right
i never said i thought it impossible that guy was a hoaxer
but he had a lot of education and skills
he probably wouldn't have had to be a scammer after developing all that
and why would he bother?
i mean: he's this genius chemist/alchemist/architect hammer swinging bad motorscooter-right?
his parents blow all that dough on college
and he runs right out and implements his big master scam?
why?
he coulda just become a politician

the first speculation doesn't explain his wheel passing all those inspections and doing all that "heavy work" for long periods of time
nor his going mad (if he actually did)
the second does

the scant shreddy scraps of contemporary accounts
that survive to come down to us as remnants
fit that second possibility
that's all i'm saying

i can see someone being so bitter--(if he was real) that he drove himself nuts
makes sense to me
not if he wasn't real
and i also don't see why all these rich people would hire a person they thought was a hoaxer to build all their stuff
yet never offer to sponser his wheel for the BIG time bucks if they thought he was real

i think they believed him, but wouldn't fork over the cash unless he blabbed first
and he couldn't bring himself to do that
so he never did--just wrote code in the poems

[rasselasss]

I'm not saying Bessler was a cheat,the only person who saw into the Pandora's box was Prince Karl(see link)so simple a child could understand, him or his family did'nt replicate this important device,yet we know money was of importance to that family,it does'nt add up to me,none of us know for sure the innards so we speculate the possibility of its contents...a lot of the questions here by members are mostly about how to continue motion,reset ,etc......i'm not here to step on anyones toes so to speak, John Collins has done immense work on this matter and others.....so i'm interested about The Calvin influence the combination of German Low language and German high language brought about largely by Calvin,which Bibles were around at the time which could explain verses etc.and lastly what significance this could have in deciphering his codes which could be dictated by his upbringing as i said i'm only started it can be something or nothing either way i find it interesting....Good Luck.....also the Huguenot and American connection.

[rasselasss]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I, ... sse-Kassel

[rasselasss]

These links are off topic,just a couple of items i found on the house of Hesse-Kassel in the last few weeks ....conspiracy buffs will enjoy.

[rasselasss]

http://www.profilingtheunexplained.com/ ... /3096.html

[rasselasss]

http://www.surrenderingislam.com/surren ... nati-order

[Dwylbtzle]

interesting--i'm certainly no "Bessler true believer"
i'm certainly quite open to entertaning the idea of a hoax
just putting the odds the other way
i never had any emotional attatchment to the guy
nor the idea of a gravity wheel
i came to neither from either
i found out about bessler when i was studying damascus steel
and found that list on google about the "top ten secrets taken to the grave"--because the blacksmith who forged rezin bowie's first bowie knife had supposedly rediscovered it's formula--and then went to the grave without revealing it
and science didn't figure it out till the 1970's (though it turns out a few families had been passing the knowledge down from father to son all along--it was never really "LOST"--except to the west)
but the search alone was fruitful--we now have stainless steel because of people trying to figure out damascus steel

so by all means
in all things
keep searching

[rasselasss]

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/skull-bones.html

[rasselasss]

Interesting link,historical.....navigate round the site,Freemasonry and Geometry ,a good read.....also examine skull picture closely..

[Dwylbtzle]

if you mean that skull right on the first page...
looks ike obama (big ears and all)

wait a minute....ears on a skull?

[rasselasss]

Dwylbzle,only you would say something as you see it(no bad thing) i had a good laugh at the comparison.....Freemasonry has no secrets today but in those years it was closely guarded as J.C. hinted he could have been a refused member although i think unlikely Prince Karl being a member of the higher orders.In many portraits and photos over the years since its formation i can recognise the square formed by an arm,compasses,the numbers 3,5,or 7 innocently included by pieces of paper,books etc.the placing of fingers in a two and a half gesture,skull, coiled rope ,to name a few.If he was having a" pop"at Freemasonry at a time when it taken very seriously it could explain his demise.(or not)....I am in no way a critic of Freemasonry having been a member for 40 years,since its formation its charitable contribution is unequaled by any Govt.or organisation,which to me says a lot......Good Luck.