Design Status Update

[cloud camper]

OK - then how much load in torque value can you put on the mechanism before it stops?

Of course that would be relative to the size of the mechanism.

Thanks!

[Silvertiger]

But as far as I was aware there are 3 classes and one law of levers.

I know.

...but perhaps you could give us some data instead.

Everything is in my previous posts on this thread...like this one, this one, this one, this one, and this one. Oh, and this one, too.

At least thanks for sharing your state of progress.
I guess you've convinced us all that you've convinced yourself it works: Now build it, and good luck.

Thanks, ME. :)

[Silvertiger]

OK - then how much load in torque value can you put on the mechanism before it stops?

Of course that would be relative to the size of the mechanism.

It is most definitely relative to the size. If the load exceeds the max torque supplied by the lever on the original 360 degree rotary design, it will stop. However, on the balanced oscillatory design, the load, in theory can go up to infinity, limited only by the strength of the supporting structures and materials.

[cloud camper]

Allright - so what is the max torque supplied by the lever?

Just trying to get a feel on whether we're talking a trivial anomaly or a significant anomaly!

I understand you have worked on it enough to believe it is not an anomaly any more but for the rest of the forum we must still consider it as such!

[Silvertiger]

I'm making a video for you CC. This will actually be my firsts test on that "infinite load theory"...I hope it works.

[cloud camper]

OK that sounds good.

In your spare time could you possibly speculate why no one else in history has discovered a fourth and fifth law of levers?

Thanks and good luck!

[Silvertiger]

Here you go, CC. I really cannot speculate on the level of creativity of others, but I can use myself as a frame of reference compared to them. Let's just say I am a savant without the autism when it comes to creativity. Creativity allows one to think outside of the box. I was born this way. I can learn just a portion of any subject that piques my interest, and come up with things that professionals of the same field couldn't come up with in their entire employed life. It's just the way that I am; how my mind works. I can't explain it.

In the video, on the second drawing, notice how the motion is incredibly even and smooth, like it is not even being affected by the load. If this were an anomaly, not of just one sim program, but TWO in fact, the behavior would become erratic in some form or another.

[ME]

...but perhaps you could give us some data instead.

Everything is in my previous posts on this thread...like these...

I think I've watches them all, but I'm seriously not going to remember all those movies... They seem to be part of different yet unshown mechanisms. It's not clear which is (more) relevant, or important...
It's either crying "tiger", or missing a great opportunities (hidden dragons - couldn't resist)... well, so be it.

Your "5th law" seems important and therefor I looked at this (now it's up to you to figure out what that 'this is, hmm :-)
The [Vy] plus mechanism was a nice combi. All the other data is useless because it didn't show the combi of measurements and the action of the mechanism (or what was left of it to display).

Could you do a similar simulation with a longer rod while starting at (let's say) 45 degrees below the horizon (or just shy of the critical non-working angle) and then also include the velocity values?

Thanks :-)

[Silvertiger]

ME, look at the video I made for cloud camper in the post above yours. It has data in it.

[snkellis]

Have you considered a ratcheting mechanism where your lever meets the axle? Free rotation in one direction, driving the rotation in the other.

[sleepy]

I understand that I am not being allowed to see your "secret mechanism" so my comments may be irrelevant,but here goes. There are two things happening in your sim videos which don't make sense in the real world.
1. It shows weight A (on the left) raising weight B and rotating CCW. It then shows weight B raising weight A in the exact same scenario CW. As if the mass of weight B was constantly changing.
2. Since raising a weight with a lever takes time, the acceleration seems unrealistic,as it would always take the same amount of time to raise that weight. And if the wheel was moving at nearly the same rate of speed as the raising weight, then the rising weight would have little effect on the wheel. It also seems that the reset (fall of weight B) accelerates accordingly. This goes against logic.

I know you are trying to reveal as little as possible,and I understand the position you are in,but a little more info would be appreciated.

[ME]

ME, look at the video I made for cloud camper in the post above yours. It has data in it.

That video is too complicated to analyze....
I could do it, but it wastes a lot of time while there's no real point in drooling over it.
Especially when there's nothing to see and learn.
There's still this luring chance that at any given point in time you proclaim something like: "oops, sorry guys. Just found out I swapped some A with B and did some C where I shouldn't, now it's a no-go. Bye.".
Fun video though. Your "5th law"-movie with 1 data point was more informative but only showed a single set-up, hence my request.

So I simply conclude your "5th law of levers" is a pendulum with its usual PE-KE pair when in transit, but mysteriously gains energy at the bouncy ends.
It takes 2 bounces in weird ratios to reach its maximum energy-level.

Cool, I guess.
How's your real-life build going?

[agor95]

I have been dealing with iterative simulations that generate inaccuracies at the transition points; in this case when the object bounces.

I have chosen to simulate the sections where a simulator is stable.

Then use maths to pass over these transition points.

Also ask for physical testing data to feed the above.

Regards

[WaltzCee]

There's still this luring chance that at any given point in time you proclaim something like: "oops, sorry guys. Just found out I swapped some A with B and did some C where I shouldn't, now it's a no-go. Bye.".

That can happen. :)

While we're waiting on Silver to get this idea out of a digital simulation and into a real live analog computer, I'd like to clear up a point I made about this mechanism.



I said:

• # This mechanism seems to produce more energy than required to drive it.

also:

This wheel has an 8" radius with a mass of 0.2lbs. The mass of the mechanism is one pound. It spun about 15 revolutions (5285 degrees) before it turned in to a pendulum.

It doesn't take much energy to rotate 3.2 oz compared to 16 oz. Duh! Well the mechanism did seem to not be affected by CF that much and was very energetic for about 120 degrees of the circle. Around that time I was looking for a way to tap into that energy and stumbled on Cloud Camper's thread: Protoclocks, escapements and closing the loop in PM. I've since noticed all the cool pictures are gone. That is an excellent thread but would have been better if there weren't all the personal jabs here and there. However . . .

That's human nature. If anyone thinks they're on the way to a solution they have a tendency to come off the chain a bit. What we haven't seen though is someone that actually has the answer. I'm just asking for a bit of advanced forgiveness in case I actually do make something that works cause I promise you I'm going to be unleashed!! :)

I do notice Silvertiger is a bit reserved.

[Fletcher]

Good morning .. my question about Load is somewhat related to sleepy's comments.

An 'infinite' Load lifting ability might be better demonstrated if the Load were isolated from the Effort package.

At the moment it appears that the heavy Load is is being lifted by the mech but because it is connected by rod it also then has a feedback into the oscillating system. Especially when you change the mass with the slider control mid sim while its running.

What goes up must come down - KE becomes GPE becomes KE etc.

........................

ST .. I'd like to see for curiosity sake the velocity profile of the Load as it is - what happens to that profile ? The Load should initially accelerate then slow at top of climb and then accelerate downwards, perhaps before slowing again ? Does it then slow again before coming to its original starting height ?

.........................

Are you able to build a model where the Load to be lifted is lifted by your mech but then disconnects from the mech and falls under gravity to its original height to be lifted again and again ?

Here I'm thinking something like a stamper arrangement with a cam or something. Or flicks a rolling ball up an incline etc.

I think that would be quite a definitive demonstration of its Load lifting capabilities.