@KAS
This subject began with a warning of people who 'suffer from energy source blindness'.
Then you have introduced the idea of 'Normal Energy'.
Both of these are insightful.
The Rocker device within the 'True & Fiction' topic last April.
That dissection was clean and to the point.
All good analysis; I think there is some focus required on 'Gravity assisted Normal Energy' related to a Rocket device variant.
I think you are the right person, with others, to check it out.
Regards
Gravity assisted Normal Energy
Moderator: scott
re: Gravity assisted Normal Energy
Hi agor95
I remember the rocking device you highlighted.
It was obviously a fake as gravity doesn't influence mass in that way.
It was IMO also impossible because it was devoid of any other type of energy supply.
Despite my original misguided belief that gravity was the only energy source that could turn Bessler's wheels, I now realise that this was impossible.
I believe Bessler's himself was unable to identify the initial force that caused his devices to emit energy.
My belief now is this he unwittingly discovered that Nf could be extracted to do work. Didn't he say something about a heavier mass lifting as the result of the
fall of a lighter mass? (Or words to that effect). That's got to be Nf. Nothing else fits in with that description.
I firmly believe that his rotating systems operated within the boundaries of known physics. His energy source had been in existance from the beginning of time.
I remember the rocking device you highlighted.
It was obviously a fake as gravity doesn't influence mass in that way.
It was IMO also impossible because it was devoid of any other type of energy supply.
Despite my original misguided belief that gravity was the only energy source that could turn Bessler's wheels, I now realise that this was impossible.
I believe Bessler's himself was unable to identify the initial force that caused his devices to emit energy.
My belief now is this he unwittingly discovered that Nf could be extracted to do work. Didn't he say something about a heavier mass lifting as the result of the
fall of a lighter mass? (Or words to that effect). That's got to be Nf. Nothing else fits in with that description.
I firmly believe that his rotating systems operated within the boundaries of known physics. His energy source had been in existance from the beginning of time.
“We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up until now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.�
Quote By Max Planck father of Quantum physics 1858 - 1947
Quote By Max Planck father of Quantum physics 1858 - 1947
re: Gravity assisted Normal Energy
That is my understanding. We may used different words, however that is fine.
There is a part of a simple rocker that may allow NF to bring energy into the device from outside the device.
This is only a small possibility.
If anyone has a sim that has tested this then please save us time.
I need to build a block model to show the idea.
The main part is this.
1. A beam that allows a ball to run along it's length
2. The beam has an extra section with spring loaded hinge connection
example just look a your flat vertical palm on a straight arm
When the beam/arm lowers to a flat surface it stops on contact [NF].
Your palm then flattens out onto the surface due to it's momentum.
This has a spring return, but it is latched at this stage.
now it's primed.
4. There is a ball that rolls along the main and extra section.
This caused the main been to rock and the section to knock and lock.
5. The ball runs down to the extra section releasing the latch.
6. The ball is rebounded by an end stop ramp.
7. The ball gets another kick from primed section spring return.
8.Hopefully the ball will move up the main beam and the beam will rock back.
There is a part of a simple rocker that may allow NF to bring energy into the device from outside the device.
This is only a small possibility.
If anyone has a sim that has tested this then please save us time.
I need to build a block model to show the idea.
The main part is this.
1. A beam that allows a ball to run along it's length
2. The beam has an extra section with spring loaded hinge connection
example just look a your flat vertical palm on a straight arm
When the beam/arm lowers to a flat surface it stops on contact [NF].
Your palm then flattens out onto the surface due to it's momentum.
This has a spring return, but it is latched at this stage.
now it's primed.
4. There is a ball that rolls along the main and extra section.
This caused the main been to rock and the section to knock and lock.
5. The ball runs down to the extra section releasing the latch.
6. The ball is rebounded by an end stop ramp.
7. The ball gets another kick from primed section spring return.
8.Hopefully the ball will move up the main beam and the beam will rock back.
re: Gravity assisted Normal Energy
Agor95
I'm curious, do you think there is something in the hinged beam/ball device you originally referred to?
The major flaw in this design as far as I observe is that the hinge drops to a lower point than the ball. I just can't see what would pull this hinge down to a lower point given that the mass causing the beam to fall (the ball) had already stopped at the block. Now, if there was a way to transfer the Ke in the ball hitting the block to lower the hinge section, that would be something. Although I don't think Nf could be extracted with his set up.
I can't see how seperating or stealing Nf from Gpe could help with this.
IMO, Nf isn't just external to a system, it is intrinsically part of any mass.
It's (unofficially) it's reaction force. So, Nf is available from within a device. But not extractable in this case I feel. This is only my opinion however.
I'm curious, do you think there is something in the hinged beam/ball device you originally referred to?
The major flaw in this design as far as I observe is that the hinge drops to a lower point than the ball. I just can't see what would pull this hinge down to a lower point given that the mass causing the beam to fall (the ball) had already stopped at the block. Now, if there was a way to transfer the Ke in the ball hitting the block to lower the hinge section, that would be something. Although I don't think Nf could be extracted with his set up.
I can't see how seperating or stealing Nf from Gpe could help with this.
IMO, Nf isn't just external to a system, it is intrinsically part of any mass.
It's (unofficially) it's reaction force. So, Nf is available from within a device. But not extractable in this case I feel. This is only my opinion however.
“We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up until now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.�
Quote By Max Planck father of Quantum physics 1858 - 1947
Quote By Max Planck father of Quantum physics 1858 - 1947
Topic: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... p?p=142876
Video: The Infinite Oscillation by veproject
Video: The Infinite Oscillation by veproject
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
re: Gravity assisted Normal Energy
@ME Thank you for the link
Using the last link and look at the rocket.
What can we do to improve it?
1. The stand and rocket beam - fine.
2. The extension arm, but spring hinged up by 30 degrees approx.
3. The ball rolls along the beam causing the rock event.
4. The beam hit the stop - This needs to be under the hinge area.
5. The mass at the extension causes it to flap down against the spring hinge.
6. This is latch locked in the down position.
7. The ball rolls down the beam and up the extension. hit a rebound
and unlocks the latch.
8. The ball gets a kick on it's way near the hinge.
9. The ball move up the beam and re-sets.
Note. there are a few little extras.
Does anyone have any improvements to this base form?
Using the last link and look at the rocket.
What can we do to improve it?
1. The stand and rocket beam - fine.
2. The extension arm, but spring hinged up by 30 degrees approx.
3. The ball rolls along the beam causing the rock event.
4. The beam hit the stop - This needs to be under the hinge area.
5. The mass at the extension causes it to flap down against the spring hinge.
6. This is latch locked in the down position.
7. The ball rolls down the beam and up the extension. hit a rebound
and unlocks the latch.
8. The ball gets a kick on it's way near the hinge.
9. The ball move up the beam and re-sets.
Note. there are a few little extras.
Does anyone have any improvements to this base form?
re: Gravity assisted Normal Energy
@KAS I respect your position
There is more to this and some more too describe.
The ball converts some of it' PE to KE. - fine
Also some height is converted to rotation of the beam.
The beams KE is stored into the extension.
The ball rolls onto the extension and the stored energy is returned
back to the ball later.
The shape of the extension is open for change or it can be multi-sectioned. That could give several kicks to the ball with stored energy.
This idea is a light one so no problems if members skip it.
[PUB:Bitter Shandy]
Regards
There is more to this and some more too describe.
The ball converts some of it' PE to KE. - fine
Also some height is converted to rotation of the beam.
The beams KE is stored into the extension.
The ball rolls onto the extension and the stored energy is returned
back to the ball later.
The shape of the extension is open for change or it can be multi-sectioned. That could give several kicks to the ball with stored energy.
This idea is a light one so no problems if members skip it.
[PUB:Bitter Shandy]
Regards
re: Gravity assisted Normal Energy
The extension could be compound with ever reducing size.
This is a little topical yes it's a spiral.
So when the extension, section 1, hits the surface it's momentum is passed to the next section; then the next.
So when the ball arrives it rolls along a flat rail.
Every time the ball is close to a hinge , on it's return, the section springs back.
That will give the ball a mini-slope back along the rail.
The rail will coil up to the start position.
This is a little topical yes it's a spiral.
So when the extension, section 1, hits the surface it's momentum is passed to the next section; then the next.
So when the ball arrives it rolls along a flat rail.
Every time the ball is close to a hinge , on it's return, the section springs back.
That will give the ball a mini-slope back along the rail.
The rail will coil up to the start position.