frcm - 4D

[murilo]

Jim, I am the very wrong one. Let it be and let that ball at your side!
'Blasted' may be unusual to you, but you got to the sense.

Ken, hi!
I present you an inquire!
I beg you to be kind in this question, almost a case of charity:
Ken, please, where have you seen ideas like mine and with the same principles of mechanism? ( linear controled expansion? )
If you are reffering to a lot of *chains* all around, you're right.
If you are saying I may have inspired and/or copied to some, you are more than absolutely wrong.

Be sure, I may be really and very stupid, but 100% original.
Cheers! M. SP mar/12

[Wheeler]

Ken
You wrote the answer in your question.
Youwrote

Well, if the number of weights rising is always equal to the number falling, then how can the device produce any excess energy for the performance of outside work?

If the number of weights rising is always equal to the number falling, You have continous motion!

[ken_behrendt]

Wheeler wrote:

If the number of weights rising is always equal to the number falling, You have continous motion!

The problem is that the amount of energy derived from the falling weights would exactly equal the amount consumed by the rising weights. IF there was no friction in the system, then this would lead to continuous motion. However, there will be friction which will quickly bring the whole mechanism to a standstill. Also, since there is no excess energy being generated, this device could never perform outside work.

I guess we will continue to discuss this for a while longer. But, eventually, when no working models, either real or virtual, are forthcoming this thread will slowly sink from the top of this forum's index page...


ken

[murilo]

Boys!
You both are right!
It shouldn't be in any other way: the energy at a side is the same at the other.
The 'reposition' will be done at double speed than falling speed. It's easy to see this; no miracles!
The 'natural' free speed will be too much.
I know it's hard to understand, but the 'natural' velocity will be hold and very reduced by the wheel's shaft, and in low speed it will be 'transformed' in strong torque...
This principle could be compared to the heavy side of a two plates balance that you hold and don't let to fall totally...
Pls, think about!
regs. M. SP march/13

[WaltzCee]

Hi, guys.
1- This is just for the records...
Since dec/16th, I and some Solidworks licensers are working in a 4D model, that will reach a good chance to be conclusive.
It's incredible the quantity of obstacles one need to deal for this kind of stuffs!!!
Now, we'll need to simulate springs for action of the locking arms, since the software doesn't accept gravity everywhere and in all pieces ( at least this is what say people in Solidworks, beside they confirm the good sw performance for the case).
A 3 giga equipment will be needed; in the group there is a mechanic ingeneer that bets my frcm will work... so as me... :]
2- Have you seen to ''The Power of Myth'', with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers? I bet as some of you will recognize himself in the matter. There is a double disk DVD. Better to see it! Some will see that a bigger deal is sometime in action... I mean, much higger and refined deal...
regs. M. SP jan/16th

A little context.

https://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html

[murilo]

If you will look at the very first design of this collection, you will see a 'balance' and its two plates!
This is a great key to you all: since the 'active light body' is thin, this lighter side of the balance will show a 'higher' top position!!!
This lighter/lighter top is PURE power to a gravity device!!!
Repeat: pure power to BW blogs!!! B)
TC!
Murilo

https://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html

[agor95]

That is better too understand.

The density on the left is higher than the right.
Work has to be done too reduce the density on the right.

However the chain should raise above the left side level.

Then the process of placing it back and reducing it's density is required to complete
the process.

A simple U shape tube with salt water in the left and rain water on the right will prove this point of the level raising up.

Regards

[murilo]

agor99, hi!
You're really smart, but forget fluids and/or liquids...
They don't offer possibility for a punctual resistance for power.
The figure I show is reference just to the main 'power'.
Main weird is the fact of 'power' goes to 'loser geometric' side! B)
Main goal is the use of the zigzag body with two apparent densities. B))
Thousands of different shapes, sizes and designs!
Thx!
Best!
M

[agor95]

I understand your point.

That is why a bicycle is powered by a chain transmission.

Hydraulic transmissions would be less efficient were powers pulses exist.

Good for high pressure and slow transmission movements.
Electric power transmission, again high voltage and low current movement.

Now we are in agreement [not tested] that the lower chain density on the right allows the
level to be greater than the left. Which is more compact therefore it has a greater density.

So it all comes down to the transition with the top looking the most likely,

For the energy too slide the links down onto the density high left side wound be done by gravity.

However there is a need for energy at the bottom transition stage.

Question

Have you or anyone else since 2003 create a physical test prototype?

Allow the left go around the lower cog and move along a restricted low density duct.

Start with the output level and increase the the angle.

Is there any demos on youtube?

[murilo]

Since 92, or near, I deal to a proto...

Still on 'works'...

BE SURE, the only mech question I found is operational... NOT conceptual!

FOR ME, there was no way to find a design where the wheel wouldn't lose the chain in the vertical - I mean, that wheel can not support the chain's mass with those simple little hooks... B(

I said this before: the chain runs down with tremendous force!!!
.
Do you know what means 'karma'? Personal and collective karma?

Do you even guess upon the system control?

Surprise: is to be done with use of that axle of the holding wheel. Control the 'charge' and all system will 'hold'...

Well, someone else will solve this... I just care upon the 'paternity'! B[

TC!
M

[agor95]

I can imagine one day a person is going to build your device.

Say with water on the left and right.

Then blow air into the right to make it less dense.

Then that will cause the water to flow over into the left dense tube.

That will start a flow from left to right.

With the flow in progress that can blow air into the right to make it less dense.

P.S. This is the method for air injection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

All the Best

[murilo]

Thx, agor100!
Your suggestion is inside our book.
BTW, one stuff I keep out any calculation: gravity acceleration, when happens the 'square' of time on power.
Best!
M

[agor95]

Hi Murilo

You have a book?!

Is your book on Amizon?

I trust it contains test prototypes so maths is not required.

P.S. agor99 and agor100 units are on other forums :-)

All the Best

[silent]

Hi Murilo. I was looking at the pictures in your link and it struck me that it's kind of like the toys page. We have the diffuse spread out weights as designated by the lazy tongs on one side and the compressed weights of the reverse folding ladder on the other side. They are all chained together. What I don't see is the hammer toys in the middle.

Whether it works or not, it still shows a lot of thought to try and figure out this problem so thanks for sharing!

silent

[murilo]

Hi Murilo

You have a book?!

Is your book on Amizon?

I trust it contains test prototypes so maths is not required.

P.S. agor99 and agor100 units are on other forums :-) B)

All the Best

agorX,
no, I still don't have a book for my adventure!
When I talk of 'my book' I'm telling about all the stuffs I have accumulated to deal 'someday'... B]
We, you, me and others, we just don't need maths, since main stuff is CLEAR imagination!
Thx!
M