Osama's Message to America!

[ken_behrendt]

Philip Sherman Gordon wrote:

What really happened that day? If these things are true, the implications clearly point to some kind of “inside job” involving the government of the United States of America. (The Department of Defense, the FBI, and the CIA all had offices in the mysteriously collapsed WTC-7. Is it reasonable that outside terrorists could have infiltrated that building and filled it with explosives? ) If the WTC was brought down by pre-positioned explosive devices, somehow facilitated and covered up by the government, it would be the most audacious conspiracy in human history. When before have so many people been so spectacularly bamboozled, with so much death and destruction, and such massive implications for geo-politics? Never, that’s when.

I would say the probability of any of these conspiracy theories having any validity is next to zero!

There was an extensive failure analysis done of the 9/11 WTC tower collapses that discovered that the major structural failure that triggered both tower collapses involved a previously unused method for attaching the floor trusses between the central core and the outer steel walls of the towers. Those trusses were held in place by a single pin that, when heated, would sheer and allow the outer steel frame to bulge away from the floors on which these pin failures were occurring. Studying the videos of the towers just minutes before they collapsed show the walls slowly buckling out as the pins failed one after another. Once that side wall buckling reached a certain point, the outer frame of the tower would no longer be able to support the stories above the floors where buckling was occurring. When that happened, there would be a sudden and complete of the remaining pins and the upper stories would then collapse is a direct vertical descent to the ground. That descent was stablilized and directed by the remaining intact sections of the building's core as it collapsed along with the floors toward ground level.

Before you know it, if people start believing this "unbridled speculation" they might start thinking that the real enemy is the US Government and not Al-Qaeda!


ken

[ovyyus]

But that still doesn't explain the collapse of WTC-7?

[ken_behrendt]

Bill...

I think the most probable explanation for the collapse of WTC-7 was that it was caused by debris hitting it from the twin towers as they collapsed. Also, I think I remember them saying that a fire started in that nearby building that, as in the case of the two largest towers, lead to its internal structural failures.

I find the idea that some secret government agencies caused 9/11 in order to "justify" our invasion into the Middle East to be illogical. Governments can always find a reason to invade another country if they want to bad enough. They do not have to kill thousands of their own citizens and risk setting off a conflagration that could incapacitate one of the major financial centers of the planet to justify such military action.

There are video tapes of Osama bin Ladin having dinner with his cronies after 9/11 and them all praising Allah for the "success" they had in bringing down those buildings. In fact, they were actually surprised that both towers collapsed since, apparently, that was not their original intent. They just wanted to cause the lost of a lot of lives and scar the symbol of the USA's economic power. So, I have no doubt who was behind this atrocity.


ken

[ovyyus]

Ken, I too find it improbable that some elaborate multi-department government conspiracy might be behind the incident, however, that still doesn't explain how WTC-7 collapsed the way it did and it doesn't explain why investigation into it's collapse was prevented.

You say that it must have been debris and fire that caused this building to structurally fail in a way that has never been seen before. What good is your speculation when a proper investigation would have revealed the actual mechanism behind the freak collapse? For such a unique landmark event to occurr without proper investigation seems odd, at best, don't you think?

[racer270]

link

and.....!

link



bin Laden delivered a new videotaped message which aired on the Arab language network Al-Jazeera Friday. This is a transcript of his remarks as translated by CNN senior editor for Arab affairs Octavia Nasr.

You, the American people, I talk to you today about the best way to avoid another catastrophe and about war, its reasons and its consequences.

And in that regard, I say to you that security is an important pillar of human life, and that free people do not compromise their security.

Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims -- that we hate freedom --let him tell us then, "Why did we not attack Sweden?" It is known that those who hate freedom don't have souls with integrity, like the souls of those 19. May the mercy of God be upon them.

We fought with you because we are free, and we don't put up with transgressions. We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you.

I wonder about you. Although we are ushering the fourth year after 9/11, Bush is still exercising confusion and misleading you and not telling you the true reason. Therefore, the motivations are still there for what happened to be repeated.

And I will talk to you about the reason for those events, and I will be honest with you about the moments the decision was made so that you can ponder. And I tell you, God only knows, that we never had the intentions to destroy the towers.

But after the injustice was so much and we saw transgressions and the coalition between Americans and the Israelis against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it occurred to my mind that we deal with the towers. And these special events that directly and personally affected me go back to 1982 and what happened when America gave permission for Israel to invade Lebanon. And assistance was given by the American sixth fleet.

During those crucial moments, my mind was thinking about many things that are hard to describe. But they produced a feeling to refuse and reject injustice, and I had determination to punish the transgressors.

And as I was looking at those towers that were destroyed in Lebanon, it occurred to me that we have to punish the transgressor with the same -- and that we had to destroy the towers in America so that they taste what we tasted, and they stop killing our women and children.

We found no difficulties in dealing with the Bush administration, because of the similarities of that administration and the regimes in our countries, half of which are run by the military and half of which are run by monarchs. And our experience is vast with them.

And those two kinds are full of arrogance and taking money illegally.

The resemblance started when [former President George H.W.] Bush, the father, visited the area, when some of our own were impressed by America and were hoping that the visits would affect and influence our countries.

Then, what happened was that he was impressed by the monarchies and the military regimes, and he was jealous of them staying in power for tens of years, embezzling the public money without any accountability. And he moved the tyranny and suppression of freedom to his own country, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the disguise of fighting terrorism. And Bush, the father, found it good to install his children as governors and leaders.

We agreed with the leader of the group, Mohammed Atta, to perform all attacks within 20 minutes before [President George W.] Bush and his administration were aware of what was going on. And we never knew that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his people in the two towers to face those events by themselves when they were in the most urgent need of their leader.

He was more interested in listening to the child's story about the goat rather than worry about what was happening to the towers. So, we had three times the time necessary to accomplish the events.

Your security is not in the hands of [Democratic presidential nominee John] Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands. Any nation that does not attack us will not be attacked.


link

[AgingYoung]

the Pentagon was a mostly wood frame building
Gordy

Gordy, I've passed the pentagon a lot of times crossing
over the 14th street bridge on my way to or thru DC. I've actually
been inside the pentagon a couple of times. It appeared to be
massive amounts of concrete that I'd guess was held with a steel structure.
Can you document that it is mostly a wood frame building?

Gene

I'm still curious.

[Jonathan]

I have not seen a picture of WTC-7 after collapse. It seems to me that it would be more messy than the description "perfectly into its own footprint", because that conjures images of Russian nesting dolls for me.
Additionally, a building destroyed by earthquake is usually brought down by the repeated side to side movement, when it does collapse it has some nonzero horizontal speed so that most of it doesn't land on its footprint. I watched the towers come down live on tv, they weren't swaying appreciably, which is partly why they came straight down.
EDIT found picture here: http://www.wtc7.net/rubblepile.html. That is the first time I have ever heard anyone refer to the same object as both a pile of rubble, and tidy.

Silverstein Properties Inc. had already won an $861 million claim for the loss of the building in a terrorist incident.

If there were anything to the conspiracy theories, even a little something, I think the insurance company would've loved to sue the US gov't for its 861M USD back.

[racer270]

sat. image of the (wts)............
gordy

ps. link

[AgingYoung]

Ken,

Although I can not condone the "civil disobedience" that
is presently occurring in various muslim countries over
the cartoons of Muhammad being published in cwertain
European newspapers, I can certainly appreciate what
is fueling the ange

There's nothing civil about it. You might consider if the muslim world can
get this worked up over a cartoon imagine what they could do if they
had a serious complaint. What might be a serious complaint? How about
if someone destroyed their poperty like they're currently doing. I wonder
how that would sit with them.

Gene

[AgingYoung]

Trev,

I read the 'article' by Philip Sherman Gordon several times.
He wears out the point in the first paragraph that the views
are from conservatives then he assumes that you'd be led to
the same conclusion that he reached. It was an insulting
'article' and more aptly could be called editorial creative writing.
I'd give it a c+ for a freshman. If you gave me something
like that your third year of journalism I'd give you an f if
I was fighting with my wife and maybe a d if I wasn't.

Gene

[ken_behrendt]

Gene wrote:

There's nothing civil about it. You might consider if the muslim world can
get this worked up over a cartoon imagine what they could do if they
had a serious complaint. What might be a serious complaint? How about
if someone destroyed their poperty like they're currently doing. I wonder
how that would sit with them.

I'm worried about what the "response" of the Muslim world will be if and when either the USA or Israel decides its time to bomb all of their nuclear fuel processessing facilities in order to prevent them from acquiring nuclear weapons. Most likely that act will trigger another bloody Middle East war that will, inevitably, drag the USA into it. Meanwhile, Osama will gain even more "holy warriors" for his struggle against the West.

Right now, I perceive the Middle East closer to a major eruption than its been in decades. If and when it comes, we can expect to see a HUGE increase in prices at the pump...


ken

[AgingYoung]

Ken,

I'm worried about what the "response" of the Muslim
world will be if and when either the USA or Israel decides
its time to bomb all of their nuclear fuel processessing
facilities in order to prevent them from acquiring
nuclear weapons.

The response will most likely be the one they had
the last time:

1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor
The Israelis have bombed a French-built
nuclear plant near Iraq's capital, Baghdad,
saying they believed it was designed to make
nuclear weapons to destroy Israel.

It is the world's first air strike against a nuclear plant.

Gene

ps: osma bin gordy blew up this thread!!!
thanks Gordy

[primemignonite]

For any who might be interested, this would be the magnum opus low-down on The Faith now under the microscope: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles.htm

Most of the articles there were written by they themselves. Sadly, in-general, most serve to reinforce Gene's positions on the subject. The comments and postings to be found elsewhere on the site are revealing.

Also, for those most wearisome, doubting Thomas detractors: 'faith' in the 'non-conspiratorial theory of history' is exactly that, and worth what it is. It is not only self-serving but dangerous, and answers greatly for the complicated mess we all find ourselves in presently. Again, the detectives' procedure of rationally pursuing clues and routing-out perpetrators of crime step by step, is the one most appealing to logic and not the commonly resorted-to 'faith' in the bogus and highly promoted quasi-religion of NCTH. It's just too easy an out, and one which most types do opt for and predictably so.

Such avoidance to the service of mere personal convenience, is low-down and common, frankly, and is not responsibility-taking by any stretch of the imagination, but rather, just the opposite. Taken to extremes and gone pernicious, such types become actual, unwitting aiders and abettors of the enemy, creating endless excuses and nonsense arguments for ignoring the obvious, and for not taking corrective action against it.

As much as I may be uncomfortable in saying so, Ovyyus' suspicions are well founded and put, as are those of similar-others as well. Faith belongs in religion and at the core, moral underpinnings for civil government, but not in science nor criminal investigation, nor in day-to-day ordering of our affairs by government.

James

[terry5732]

I don't see any islamic members joining in the discussion here.
Perhaps there are none.
Maybe muslims don't come here because they're not interested in advancing the world.
Not even one of them?
So much for not generalizing.

[rlortie]

Terry,

I would hesitate to have posted:

I don't see any islamic members joining in the discussion here.
Perhaps there are none.
Maybe muslims don't come here because they're not interested in advancing the world.
Not even one of them?
So much for not generalizing.

They are here, they just do not make a thing about their religious beliefs. They are no different than a protestant Catholic or any religion, you have the fanatics in all.

My private contacts with various members and none members include but are not limited to such countrys as, Uzbekistan, Turkey, Iran Italy, Sweden, Georgia, Germany, Romania, Azerbaijan and other Baltic States.

One of my best and favorite contacts is an automotive engineer living in Tehran Iran. You can't get much deeper into Islamic territory than that.
I am sure that if I were to put the question forward, there are muslims. Also referred to as "A believer or adherent of Islam".

As it should be here on the forum we do not discuss our religious or political beliefs. Politicaly speaking I probably should not have contact with an Iranian. As far as I am concerned he puts his pants on one leg at a time just as I do. He is will educated and is a lead man in a factory building French designed Renaults.

Ralph