Big Troubles Brewing For The Theoretical Physics Smart-Set!!!

[ruggerodk]

Hi Grimer
Collecting CF of weights inside the rotating weights....
Like some Watt's Governor on the axle of each rotating weight?
To make them run 'the last mile'

regards
ruggero ;-)

[primemignonite]

I may be dreaming, but I think this thread is quickly adding up to something final and positive but, I too reserve the right to be wrong.

James

(My second shortest post.)

[Grimer]

Hi Grimer ,
Once built , you will find your pendulum does not move far past 7 o clock .

Thanks for that, Daan. You've made me realise I had things the wrong way around.

One has to drop the weight down an elliptical path and let it rise up the circular path. At the top of the circular path it is thrown vertically upwards.

The reasoning behind it is this.

Dropping down the elliptical path the curvature is constantly increasing from zero at the top (centre of curvature at a great distance) to some large value at the bottom (centre of curvature close to the weight).

The slope is applying Force x Time towards a moving centre of curvature. In other words is subjecting the weight to third derivative action (Jerk).
This is giving the weight jerk energy. Had this action been applied by a string pulling in the weight in towards the moving centre of curvature then second derivative work, i.e. Force x Distance, would have been needed.

Because the slope doesn't move in applying its force no second derivative energy is needed.

Clearly, this explains the purpose of the rapid change of curvature in the Sjack Abeling gravity motor at the "hook" section where the weights are launched up the fixed slope.

There is one other important feature which Sjack's device must have. One doesn't want to put lose energy in rotation of the weights so one want to have the weights supported on their axles as in the Keenie. These axles will have a ball race so as no shear is transmitted to the main body of the weight. The inertia of the axles is minimal so no significant energy is lost there.
...

I've now cottoned on to the reason that Sjack Abeling uses a hook curve rather than the quarter ellipse I used in a previous diagram. One obviously wants to concentrate the change in acceleration towards the centre when the speed of the weight is greatest. This results in the most intense G force and the greatest amount of third order energy being put into the system.

(It reminds me of the time I was riding my push bike around a public golf course and I went down a steepish slope onto a flat green. The change in acceleration was so violent that it took all my strength to stop my face smashing into the handlebars. No doubt golf addicts wish it had.)

Ideally one needs to design the hook as transition curves so that the change in acceleration is pure third derivative and avoids snap, crackle and pop.

[Grimer]

Hi Grimer
Collecting CF of weights inside the rotating weights....
Like some Watt's Governor on the axle of each rotating weight?
To make them run 'the last mile'

regards
ruggero ;-)

I seem to remember that Sjack was cagey about the design of his weights (shades of Bessler). I have to see if I can find the reference to that.

If one just used a rolling weight then sending it though a violent change of curvature would lead to skidding and great loss of energy through friction.

Clearly, the weight and hook design are all of a piece.

[Grimer]

Here's the frame I must have been thinking of




The above screen shot was taken, 20 seconds in, from this YouTube video.

[ruggerodk]

I seem to remember that Sjack was cagey about the design of his weights (shades of Bessler). I have to see if I can find the reference to that.

To my knowledge Sjack dont mention anything of this kind - it is just an idea I have.

If one just used a rolling weight then sending it though a violent change of curvature would lead to skidding and great loss of energy through friction.

Yes, if you are using a normal 'static' rolling weight - My idea is to gain energy from the weight's rolling movement (CF). Not the CF connected to the weight's path and curvature on the big wheel.

Clearly, the weight and hook design are all of a piece.

Yes, I can see and acknowledge your design.

[Grimer]

Just to make sure that I wasn't making an egregious error in assuming that pulling a pendulum bob in towards its pivot will add energy to the system I thought I had better carry out the simple test shown below.



Sure enough, pulling the heavy bolt off the drawer edge and pulling in the string as the bolt swings one can get the bolt to sail right over the wooden rod axle.

[Grimer]

http://www.mooieenergie.nl/

... for the latest update on Sjack Abeling.

Admittedly, it doesn't say much but at least it's not appealing for funds.

The tone sounds optimistic - even a bit manic, perhaps.

[rlortie]

Most common dictionaries point out three define meanings for the word "Revolution". Which one do you think this manic link refers to?

I believe I shall stick to the 2011 version and call this update procrastination. True it does not look like he is scamming, rather attempting to keep the possibility within reach.

2011 again has been a busy year for Abeling Beheer. We continued our search for a solution to the many requirements for a feasible, mechanically manageable system.

It has to convert gravity (based upon Sjack Abeling’s theory of dynamics) into controllable results.

We all have our theories; assumptions based on abstract reasoning leading to nothing more than speculation. I do not consider any of my theories worthy of subscribing for a web page. After all who knows, one of them may prove fruitful! :-)

If the world wide web of over-unity seekers has not made his theory feasible within the last two years, then where is the initiative breaking the deadlock as it now exists.

Ralph

[Grimer]

from the Spiral track acceleration... thread

...
If we control the change of acceleration,with respect to time (the third derivative ...),we can control a much stronger action-reaction interplay with inertia.
...

Yep. As I said when I first joined this forum Impact (jerk, third derivative) is the key.

This seems to be what Sjack has found.

A more refined pendulum experiment which has failed to confirm my PoP claim has instead yielded up something more valuable. It has shown how to use the 3rd derivative to achieve a state of continuous out of balance.

More later.

[Grimer]

The above diagram illustrates a procedure I carried out as a preliminary to testing the effect of jerk on the pendulum

First test

Difference between swing one way and swing the other = 3 cm

Pendulum length from pivot to the centre of the billiard ball = 58 cm

Gravity potential recovery = 100 - (3/2/58 x 100) = 97.4%

This is much the same as the value I found with the 360° pendulum so there's not much point in trying to refine the action of the straight pendulum. I may as well go directly to the interrupted pendulum.

I'll now prepare diagrams illustrating the second test where the aerial hinge elbow which is incorporated into the pendulum arm is forced to bend by the upper arm coming up against a stop.

[Grimer]

Above is a diagrammatic representation of the jointed pendulum experiment.

The pendulum is allowed to swing from 3 o'clock to 6 where it comes up against a rigid stop just above the aerial hinge. The lower half of the pendulum arm continues to rotate about this new axis until it reaches the limbo bar.

The height it reached was, within limits of experimental error, the same as the pendulum with a locked hinge and no stop.

So my hope that jerk energy would lead to a rise higher than the starting point was dashed and my previous claim that the experiment had proved a point of principle was false.

But licking my wounds I suddenly realised that the experiment had thrown up evidence of something even better.

It shows how to achieve a continuously out of balance wheel.

The jerk action pulls the weight in with no expenditure of energy.

To get the same effect with second order force x distance energy by pulling the weight in towards the main axis one would have to do work.

In jerking the weights in from 6 to 9 one unbalances the system since weights on a noon to 6 leg are further from the axis than weights on the 6 to midnight leg.

Second derivative energy (force x distance) (dx/dt)•(dx/dt)•(dx)
Third derivative energy (jerk x time) (dx/dt)•(dx/dt)•(dx/dt)•(dt)

Third derivative energy is transduced to second derivative by cancelling out the red dt's.

[jim_mich]

Grimer, this might interest you.
Rumor has it that a pendulum that swings East-West while wrapping and unwrapping around a large pipe gains energy.

[Grimer]

Yes - That is interesting, Jim. The wrapping around the pipe has obvious relevance to jerk energy though I'm not sure I see the relevance of east to west. Some aspect of Coriolis, perhaps.

A nice simple set up to analyse. I'll have to give it some thought.

You wouldn't happen to have a reference for the rumour by any chance, would you?

Edit: I found by accident that clicking on your animation leads to the original discussion. Thanks.

[Grimer]

Above is a diagrammatic representation of the jointed pendulum experiment.

The pendulum is allowed to swing from 3 o'clock to 6 where it comes up against a rigid stop just above the aerial hinge. The lower half of the pendulum arm continues to rotate about this new axis until it reaches the limbo bar.

The height it reached was, within limits of experimental error, the same as the pendulum with a locked hinge and no stop.

So my hope that jerk energy would lead to a rise higher than the starting point was dashed and my previous claim that the experiment had proved a point of principle was false.

But licking my wounds I suddenly realised that the experiment had thrown up evidence of something even better.

It shows how to achieve a continuously out of balance wheel.

The jerk action pulls the weight in with no expenditure of energy.

To get the same effect with second order force x distance energy by pulling the weight in towards the main axis one would have to do work.

In jerking the weights in from 6 to 9 one unbalances the system since weights on a noon to 6 leg are further from the axis than weights on the 6 to midnight leg.

Second derivative energy (force x distance) (dx/dt)•(dx/dt)•(dx)
Third derivative energy (jerk x time) (dx/dt)•(dx/dt)•(dx/dt)•(dt)

Third derivative energy is transduced to second derivative by cancelling out the red dt's.

I'm fortunate I was forced into a minimalist approach to this problem by my very limited apparatus and experimental skills. It's like someone with only one digit who has to use the superior binary system of reckoning.

I also took courage from Penny's example:

In July of 1946 he was invited to be present at the Bikini Atoll in the Marshall Islands and wrote the after action reports on the effects of the two A-Bomb detonations His reputation was further advanced when , after the sophisticated test apparatus of the Americans failed, he was able to determine the blast power using observations from his specially placed piles of discarded oil drums.