The application of Bessler’s Physics to Bessler’s problem!

[rlortie]

Now this one, went over me like a fart in a windstorm, anybody care to enlighten me.

My argument is that the winding down of Orbits should have been a lot quicker if gravity was not doing work on planetary movements.

Sorry for being an UN-educated idiot that believes we will eventually put gravity to work, but this statement does not make any sense to me.

Bill, you quoted and responded, what is the gist of this statement?

Ralph

[ovyyus]

Sorry Ralph, not sure what you're talking about (on previous page). Are you saying that gravity driven devices, like a water wheel for example, exist and therefore the force of gravity is non conservative?

PS: Ralph, please don't ask me to explain what Trevor says. Use your imagination and you'll get the gist :D

[rlortie]

If you wish to consider that energy to replace the water is at the expense of solar energy, then I guess in a way waterwheels could be included.

That however is not my intent, nor do I wish to change the subject. I believe I asked if you believe in your own statement. Waterwheels was not mentioned. :-)

[Ed]

Bill, it seems the trouble is that you're trying to be some sort of cosmic accountant! You see, I don't care about some momentum lost to some grey alien planet that he won't get to use an eon from now. I would like to be a good Steward of the universe, but just like a vegan can't keep from stepping on all ants or drinking and digesting all microbes, I don't want to have to account for every scrap of momentum I use, lest I become Monk.

Geez, I don't want your job! :-)

[ovyyus]

I'm trying to be accountant for the universe now? Is that the trouble? I thought we were talking about momentum transfer between two moving bodies under the influence of gravity and the question of whether or not the force of gravity is conserved in the transaction?

[ovyyus]

Yes Ralph, I said that momentum gained by one balances momentum given up by the other. Is that not the case?

[Ed]

I'm trying to be accountant for the universe now? Is that the trouble? I thought we were talking about momentum transfer between two moving bodies under the influence of gravity and the question of whether or not the force of gravity is conserved in the transaction?

The space craft left the planet's influence didn't it?

How about this?

Bill: "Is nectar conserved in the transaction between a bee and a flower?"
Me: "The force of gravit...I mean smell of flower attracts the bee, then the payoff is the potential that comes from the nourishment of the nectar."
Bill: "But the bee still carries pollen away from the flower."
Me: "But the bee WAS able to fly away from the flower. The flower didn't Venus Fly Trap it's ass!"
Bill: "But it had to do extra effort to carry the pollen to another flower!"
Me: "But the bee was already going to the other flower anyway!"
Bill: "How do I resolve this dance?"
Me: "Study grasshoppers!"

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Ovyyus,

I thought the 3.5 terawatt was per tide, if they can work out the terawatt then they must have the volumes of fluid rise and falls, I would dearly like to see the sums and there values to work out the total kinetic energy per tide, I am willing to learn that is a fact! The tides maybe the most simple way to put this Gravity is or it is not a Conservative force to bed.

What would like to do is trace the origin of this Torque Force and how it is transferred!

This tidal drag creates torque on the moon that gradually transfers angular momentum to its orbit, and a gradual increase in Earth–moon separation. The equal and opposite torque on the Earth correspondingly decreases its rotational velocity.

Thanks guys, for all the input on this subject, With thanks Trevor

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Ralph,

if gravity is conservative force it is not doing work, no energy input!
in my unfounded opinion it is doing work, (not conservative) if it did not put in any energy the earths spin would have stop by now!

with respect, Trevor

[ovyyus]

Bill: "Is nectar conserved in the transaction between a bee and a flower?"
Me: "The force of gravit...I mean smell of flower attracts the bee, then the payoff is the potential that comes from the nourishment of the nectar."

So, now nectar is momentum and aroma is gravity :D

[Ed]

More like, you're trying to power with grasshoppers and we're trying to power with bees. :-)

[Ed]

Not to add more potential to the fire... :-)

excerpt:

Moon Brings Novel Green Power to Arctic Homes
By Alister Doyle
OSLO (Reuters) - Homes on the Arctic tip of Norway started getting power from the moon on Saturday via a unique subsea power station driven by the rise and fall of the tide.

A tidal current in a sea channel near the town of Hammerfest, caused by the gravitational tug of the moon on the earth, started turning the 33-foot blades of a turbine bolted to the seabed to generate electricity for the local grid.

The prototype looks like an underwater windmill and is expected to generate about 700,000 kilowatt hours of non-polluting energy a year, or enough to light and heat about 30 homes.

"This is the first time in the world that electricity from a tidal current has been fed into a power grid," Harald Johansen, managing director of Hammerfest Stroem which has led the project, told Reuters.
[...]
The water flows at about 8 feet per second for about 12 hours when the tide is rising through the Kvalsund channel, pauses at high tide and then reverses direction. The blades on the turbine automatically turn to face the current.

If successful, the project could herald far wider use of predictable tides in green energy and generate millions of dollars in orders. Windmills, by contrast, are useless in calm weather and have to be built to withstand hurricane-force winds.

[Ed]

Alright, then this...

Hi All,

Fascinatinging concept... http://www.fuellessflight.com

[ovyyus]

A tidal current in a sea channel near the town of Hammerfest, caused by the gravitational tug of the moon on the earth...

Well there you go, a journalist said that tidal current is caused by the gravitational tug of the moon so it must be true because they always get their facts straight. Problem solved, thanks Ed :P

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Ovyyus,

I do not know for sure if Gravity is conservative or not, but as long as I can get a downward pull on both side of my wheel I will be happy to use it!
I would like a better understanding of my torque force input ( Gravity ) though!

Gravity is a conservative force is a lot bigger claim than a working gravity wheel, and nobody knows for sure, all the measurement on planetary motion would be the same, so how would you Know. I just have this feeling (best way to put it “ thanks�) that maybe some work is creeping in even though there is a centripetal effect.

I am not here to score points, I am here to learn and better describe my thinking, and to be honest I think I have improved a lot since joining here, still a long way to go though lol.

With respect, Trevor