5:3 Preponderance and the ancient problem of Perpetual Motion

[TheVisitorV]

People keep bashing Christianity without understanding anything out of it, but letting religion aside, and stop thinking so simplistic, maybe some people will realize that any organization that thrives for whatever reason will be infiltrated and derailed to serve the purposes of a few evil psychopaths.

High Iq and no empathy is the recepise for disaster in our society, and it happens all over the place, government, corporations, institutionalized religion.

I'm not sure why people fall for this tricks, the same shadowy organizations that infiltrated all this legit entities spread the same ideas and arguments in hope that they will be able to dissolve them and replace them with their own bullshit religion and doctrines and for their own sake not yours or mine.

Is the Christian religion perfect? not by any margin
Is Christianity perfect? YES!

[Oystein]

I had a public discussion in Norway, about Christianity. The words of Jesus are clearly invented by humans and written for even simpler humans.

I concluded that thoroughly investigated, christianity (The bible words) are true evil. A true God could tell people the truth in a short document. All the writers of the bible enters so many pitfalls, and fail consistency checks to a degree that will make people have to interpret the meaning of our great creator. These different interpretations can then start arguments, and finally make us go to wars! Many of the European wars was about just that!! No true God would EVER confuse man and make them kill each other over it.. Not a single life should be destroyed because God didn't know how to write consistent! Not ONE! It must be the words of humans then.

I asked: Can rich people get to heaven?

Answer Yes. Being saved is enough! And it is ok, to have "enough money and wealth". (No definition was given)

Jesus say: NO. If you'r rich, you would have to give it all away. "It's just as easy for a camel to enter through a needle's eye, that for a rich person to get to heaven.."

But nobody, will give all away, they just go to another place in the bible where Jesus happen to say that salvation is all you need. Oh.. yesssss! When I asked, nobody interpreted themselves as the rich! Well, compared to the person in the bible, you are rich as hell...

That is called interpretation and bias. How can we look for signs not to give all we have away, and still get saved?.. Actually you can't choose. But your mind wants to. So you will!

Finally: By giving all away, you say that you trust 100% the word of Jesus. The problem of man, being focused on by Jesus is namely Greed! So, You have to be completely without greed to get to heaven! How to prove you are 100% without greed, and 100% believe Jesus' word? Well, as Jesus said about the rich man: Sell everything you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will get a gift in heaven!

Oh so you need to prove you are without greed, to get an even better gift.. WOW! Great. Hmmm... like an idea made by man..to use greed to lead man... God would know he would get busted.. he's so smart you know..

Throw away greed and egocentric thoughts, get saved, and you are good to go, for the ultimate gift. The perfect retirement plan!

Why do we want to go to heaven?? Because we have a TOTAL EGOCENTRIC mind..full of GREED and FEAR. We want a perfect retirement!

Well that is the BIG catch 22 of the bible. Didn't God think of that? It is impossible to get to heaven! A soon as you want the gift of heaven for yourself, you are being egocentric and greedy. Even when giving your money to the poor, you are doing it out of greed, not compassion!

Greed..simple raw greed, is what forces you to be nice to poor people, so YOU can dance happy forever after!All you need...is greed...lalalalala

The christian answers: Well, do the poor feels different if you'r donations has a hidden agenda or not? Oh my...Oh my,.I got so sad and angry..

The answer from the christian society was: It is said that salvation is not for the thinking people.. the message of God is made so that only simple people will accept it without further questions, and advanced thinking will make you fail salvation.. Like a code so cleverly designed by the Great omnipresent God that only the dumb and ignorant will understand it.. stop asking questions... just accept it, was the answer!!

Was God that great? Didn't he know just what he created? Why create brains if he didn't want it to be used.. And for what good..to smile at ol' aunt Ruth in a white dress for a whole eternity.. ok.. isn't that good enough? throw in some hell too, then you certainly will behave, right..?

------------------

Christianity without religion?

If you take away religion from christianity, what is left?

Christianity is just as perfect as Islam. If you take away religion from Islam, you get something like "Muhamedity".

Who is the better?

Since christianity can be found to be designed according to Pythagoras, Socrates and Aristotle's ideas about a perfect system in nature, what does that say about christianity?

Does it say that christianity was designed by "philosophers and poets" for making the everyday worker, work and bow for their slave/master, or did it just happen to fit their already drawn system? I think the philosophers system (view of nature) was (and is) so advanced, that they knew they would get just a few bright followers. So they made two versions. A public lie for the average man, and a hidden scientific true version of nature.

The answer to this is in RC and masonry, and in the proof that all other religions believe just as much in completely different stories.. and all think the other is just as false.. (logically broken chain)

It is even possible to be saved and see visions and get messages from "God" and "Jesus", even if all the other religions can feel and experience just the same.. So, what is in common? Simply one thing: The human brain!

What about it being a psychological effect, innate in humans..? Just as Plato say that the halving and doubling of the square is innate in humans!

If so, it is not Christianity (the story) that is perfect, but a general system and the human mind! This can be seen in the placebo effect. The same effect that makes you feel better when you pray, to any God! Common again.

I can agree that the human mind (nature) (that you think is Christianity) is the most perfect we have, and at the same time the most mistreated (fooled) thing that exists, because of religion, there we agree.

Yes to Brain.
Yes to unbiased thinking.
Double yes, to collective brainpower. (no secrecy, documenting progress, no Semmelweis-effect, no bias and limit on thoughts, thus no religion).
Yes to true compassion without in life and afterlife payment.
No to placebo saviors stealing collective brainpower.

Christianity is perfect? I say Christian Rose-Cross (the hidden truth) is perfect..

Have a nice weekend ;-)

[Calloway]

Hello Oystein, You have brought up some thoughts that I find very interesting. Let's go to the other end of the spectrum. What are your thoughts on evil in the human brain? There are so many ghost shows on now reporting life after death with ( proof)?? on camera. I also suspect the brain is a great deceiver! Makes you wonder what's real and what isn't? Sure like reading your stuff. Cheers


Maybe my wheel really works, just my mind says it isn't.....:)

[WaltzCee]

I had a public discussio6n in Norway, about Christianity. The words of Jesus are clearly invented by humans and written for even simpler humans.

I concluded that thoroughly investigated, christianity (The bible words) are true evil. A true God could tell people the truth in a short document. All the writers of the bible enters so many pitfalls, and fail consistency checks to a degree that will make people have to interpret the meaning of our great creator. These different interpretations can then start arguments, and finally make us go to wars! Many of the European wars was about just that!! No true God would EVER confuse man and make them kill each other over it.. Not a single life should be destroyed because God didn't know how to write consistent! Not ONE! It must be the words of humans then.

I asked: Can rich people get to heaven?

Answer Yes. Being saved is enough! And it is ok, to have "enough money and wealth". (No definition was given)

Jesus say: NO. If you'r rich, you would have to give it all away. "It's just as easy for a camel to enter through a needle's eye, that for a rich person to get to heaven.."

Jesus doesn't say no.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

You say it's impossible, Jesus didn't say that.

But nobody, will give all away,

Again not true

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

they just go to another place in the bible where Jesus happen to say that salvation is all you need. Oh.. yesssss! When I asked, nobody interpreted themselves as the rich! Well, compared to the person in the bible, you are rich as hell...

That is called interpretation and bias. How can we look for signs not to give all we have away, and still get saved?.. Actually you can't choose. But your mind wants to. So you will!

Finally: By giving all away, you say that you trust 100% the word of Jesus. The problem of man, being focused on by Jesus is namely Greed! So, You have to be completely without greed to get to heaven! How to prove you are 100% without greed, and 100% believe Jesus' word? Well, as Jesus said about the rich man: Sell everything you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will get a gift in heaven!

Oh so you need to prove you are without greed, to get an even better gift.. WOW! Great. Hmmm... like an idea made by man..to use greed to lead man... God would know he would get busted.. he's so smart you know..

Throw away greed and egocentric thoughts, get saved, and you are good to go, for the ultimate gift. The perfect retirement plan!

Why do we want to go to heaven?? Because we have a TOTAL EGOCENTRIC mind..full of GREED and FEAR. We want a perfect retirement!

Well that is the BIG catch 22 of the bible. Didn't God think of that? It is impossible to get to heaven! A soon as you want the gift of heaven for yourself, you are being egocentric and greedy. Even when giving your money to the poor, you are doing it out of greed, not compassion!

Greed..simple raw greed, is what forces you to be nice to poor people, so YOU can dance happy forever after!All you need...is greed...lalalalala

The christian answers: Well, do the poor feels different if you'r donations has a hidden agenda or not? Oh my...Oh my,.I got so sad and angry..

The answer from the christian society was: It is said that salvation is not for the thinking people.. the message of God is made so that only simple people will accept it without further questions, and advanced thinking will make you fail salvation.. Like a code so cleverly designed by the Great omnipresent God that only the dumb and ignorant will understand it.. stop asking questions... just accept it, was the answer!!

Was God that great? Didn't he know just what he created? Why create brains if he didn't want it to be used.. And for what good..to smile at ol' aunt Ruth in a white dress for a whole eternity.. ok.. isn't that good enough? throw in some hell too, then you certainly will behave, right..?

------------------

Christianity without religion?

If you take away religion from christianity, what is left?

Christianity is just as perfect as Islam. If you take away religion from Islam, you get something like "Muhamedity".

Who is the better?

Since christianity can be found to be designed according to Pythagoras, Socrates and Aristotle's ideas about a perfect system in nature, what does that say about christianity?

Does it say that christianity was designed by "philosophers and poets" for making the everyday worker, work and bow for their slave/master, or did it just happen to fit their already drawn system? I think the philosophers system (view of nature) was (and is) so advanced, that they knew they would get just a few bright followers. So they made two versions. A public lie for the average man, and a hidden scientific true version of nature.

The answer to this is in RC and masonry, and in the proof that all other religions believe just as much in completely different stories.. and all think the other is just as false.. (logically broken chain)

It is even possible to be saved and see visions and get messages from "God" and "Jesus", even if all the other religions can feel and experience just the same.. So, what is in common? Simply one thing: The human brain!

What about it being a psychological effect, innate in humans..? Just as Plato say that the halving and doubling of the square is innate in humans!

If so, it is not Christianity (the story) that is perfect, but a general system and the human mind! This can be seen in the placebo effect. The same effect that makes you feel better when you pray, to any God! Common again.

I can agree that the human mind (nature) (that you think is Christianity) is the most perfect we have, and at the same time the most mistreated (fooled) thing that exists, because of religion, there we agree.

Yes to Brain.
Yes to unbiased thinking.
Double yes, to collective brainpower. (no secrecy, documenting progress, no Semmelweis-effect, no bias and limit on thoughts, thus no religion).
Yes to true compassion without in life and afterlife payment.
No to placebo saviors stealing collective brainpower.

Christianity is perfect? I say Christian Rose-Cross (the hidden truth) is perfect..[/sizee]

Have a nice weekend ;-)

It's hard to debate when you misquote the text. Is equally hard to debate when you change
the meaning of the words. In part that's why Jesus said they think they can see but they're
blind. They have no need of being healed. Of course I'm paraphrasing him.

Could you provide a working definition of religion? Jesus defined true or pure religion. What
does religion mean to you?

[ME]

I concluded that thoroughly investigated, christianity (The bible words) are true evil.

The evil part, as always, is about control over people by people.
Best via fabricated unnecessary mysterious dependencies that keep them hooked, busy and certainly in need of a translator or a mediator (for a price of course).
In the early days Christian religion could get away with only having a Latin version of that book at their disposal and impose that "fear" upon people.

Masonary and Rosicrucianism are in no way better, and actually more convoluted at the core.
Obscurity is exactly the Modus Operandi.

My conclusion, read the Bible words and while totally skipping the old-part notice (only one paragraph?) how Jesus advises to just meditate and avoid the hypocrisy.
That's certainly not a new and unique advice, but nevertheless hugely important for self-reflection.
Then you could just toss that book away, or use it to sit on.

So glad Orffyreus documented it all for us!
https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/view ... 540#169540

It's the same issue as with all Religeous Cult Organisations: So sad it's only about ownership.
Like a puppet on a string Bessler clearly wrote a cook-book :-\

I agree with "Entrapment is a fruitless waste of time, for the amusement of a few.".

[WaltzCee]

I agree with "Entrapment is a fruitless waste of time, for the amusement of a few.".

I think that's true. The Pharisees continually tried to trap Jesus with his words.

A few verses about the talking snake. Hahaha, which in Japanese means 555.

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?�

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’�

God didn't say you couldn't touch it. That was Eve adding to the word of God.

Proverbs 30:5-6 New International Version (NIV)

• 5 “Every word of God is flawless;
  he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
  6 Do not add to his words,
  or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

The Bible is an amazing tapestry, however it's not for everyone.
It definitely isn't for the wolves dressed up like sheep.

[murilo]

People keep bashing Christianity without understanding anything out of it, but letting religion aside, and stop thinking so simplistic, maybe some people will realize that any organization that thrives for whatever reason will be infiltrated and derailed to serve the purposes of a few evil psychopaths.

High Iq and no empathy is the recepise for disaster in our society, and it happens all over the place, government, corporations, institutionalized religion.

I'm not sure why people fall for this tricks, the same shadowy organizations that infiltrated all this legit entities spread the same ideas and arguments in hope that they will be able to dissolve them and replace them with their own bullshit religion and doctrines and for their own sake not yours or mine.

Is the Christian religion perfect? not by any margin
Is Christianity perfect? YES!

TheVV,
yessss... Agreed!
You're smart!
All this is not more than proud exhibition!
Best!
M

[raj]

I call myself a HINDU, because I was born into a hindu family.

So here's my take on RELIGION

God is a man-made concept.

No matter how MAN was created, it must have been like any other living creatures.

Like any other creatures, MAN could breed.

Breeding meant having young ones of their own to care fore and protect.

That meant having/using physical force to fend for food and defend against hostile force.

That's what made DARWIN come up with his " Survival of the fittest theory"

Physical force made men into KINGS to domiinate others into slavery.

But then some men with BRAIN power, foresee the wrongs that weaker men were suffering.

So these wise men devise a mean to console the weaks/slaves and frighten the strong/kings etc.

The concept of a 'CREATOR" omnipotent and omnipresent spread as a means to control human behaviour,

This became the basis of a religion.

Because MAN like any other living creatures were spread around in isolated areas on the planet, this concept of the 'CREATOR" took the form of different religions.

This is just MY OPINION.

Raj

[TheVisitorV]

Over the years i've met many people with strong opinions but not much experience with the other realms. It's mind opening to see how the mind acts when life experiences are either different or lack. Sometimes i forget i was the same, many many years ago before i've dare to ask with sincerity in my heart:

I want to know cause no matter how much info i gather will not suffice, i want to know!

Perhaps i was lucky, maybe they like me, maybe only that is enough to open up the doors, but there i was and i was shown.

It took a while though, to get to live it here in the "real world", and embodied all that it was given, step by step, so slow yet so tiring. Timing is everything cause sometimes i forget i am the one that comes with ways in witch we drive humanity insane into belivening that were 2 or 1 or 3 or many more.

Yet time is everything, or is it? I think timing is more important cause time is all we got and what is sad to me at lest is that time is endless and we forget and time is precious and we remember timing is everything, how confusing. This times we live in, so confusing, always such a bugger in the mind.

How come it even exist, it seems so sooooooo impossible. Timing opens up the gates of infinity. numbers mean nothing without time.

[TheVisitorV]

lol, i was kind of backed las night, wrote the above post but i forgot to click submit :))

[silent]

When it comes to religion, I've come to one basic conclusion.

In the immortal words of Lindsay Buckingham - a guitarist for Fleetwood Mac - as he explained about how to play one of his musical pieces he stated,

"Within a limitation exists infinite possibilities."

And so if one lives their life with no boundaries, it's easy to get into drugs, sex, violence, and then perhaps misery and death that leads ultimately to one becoming a slave to addictions where no freedom abounds.

Thus, my reason for faith and those of like-mind is what the Bible itself says at Ephesians 6:3,"so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth."

Never to be used as a reason to bring violence to others nor to force others to follow your religion nor to judge others. Used as a bonafide way to improve yourself, live longer, avoid snares that come from living wrong, and in so doing perhaps attract others to the peace you have found.

The fruitage of any faith that is true and legitimate should be obvious in that goodness and peace abounds. Any perversion whatsoever in a religion or faith that doesn't bring positive results proves it to be false as to its own power.

silent

[murilo]

I call myself a HINDU, because I was born into a hindu family.

So here's my take on RELIGION

God is a man-made concept.

No matter how MAN was created, it must have been like any other living creatures.

Like any other creatures, MAN could breed.

Breeding meant having young ones of their own to care fore and protect.

That meant having/using physical force to fend for food and defend against hostile force.

That's what made DARWIN come up with his " Survival of the fittest theory"

Physical force made men into KINGS to domiinate others into slavery.

But then some men with BRAIN power, foresee the wrongs that weaker men were suffering.

So these wise men devise a mean to console the weaks/slaves and frighten the strong/kings etc.

The concept of a 'CREATOR" omnipotent and omnipresent spread as a means to control human behaviour,

This became the basis of a religion.

Because MAN like any other living creatures were spread around in isolated areas on the planet, this concept of the 'CREATOR" took the form of different religions.

This is just MY OPINION.

Raj

Raj, hi!
By all means you show to have a CLEAR in equilibrium mind and thinking!
Beautiful indeed!
I would say, you look in peace and comfortable.
Great! Congrats!
If you allow me a tip, just don't try to force/convert others - as some other we know.
Remember that all universe is infinite... so as are all solutions...
Best!
M

[DrWhat]

TheVisitorV

Time does not really exist. Only movement exists.

If you could reverse all movement, eg watch a small tree grow and then somehow make it reverse its growth precisely, you think you have gone back in time, but you haven't.
Look outside your window. If you could magical reverse every single movement that occurred that day you would think that time had gone backwards, but it hadn't.
We are living in exactly the same moment, things are just moving, growing, deteriorating.
Time itself does not exist.
Just my opinion

[Oystein]

I'm pretty sure this knowledge is what the Knights Templars discovered. The truth about Christianity and religion. By the hidden magic spell called "The Grail" (written an a Stone tablet) and the hidden mathematical equation called The Philosophers Stone. All seemingly the natures thus God's language/system. Religion was designed to fit this...not the other way around.. The bible was written to fit this. This is the Templar's, pre-masonry and RC's treasure. The forbidden Science/truth of Religion. This secret knowledge is why they had to die by the hands of the Catholics, and that is why the secret tradition was kept "underground".. in a new anonymous disguise.. RC.. And lastly the Catholics established a "hacker" group called The Jesuits order.. to infiltrate and to learn these secrets. Masonry was then established to keep the Jesuits out, by blacklisting..

But who would have to know? At least these groups:

Crafts:
- Printers
- Artists/Painters
- Poets
- Architects/craftsmen/masons/Builders
- Royales

Brotherhoods:
- RC
- Masons
- Jesuits
- Popes

This is my opinion from researching the code from all through history. from the origin until today..

Enough about religion..