The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

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Fletcher wrote:The point being that when the cosmic microwave background maps are analysed they show a consistency in ANY direction from ANY POINT. Meaning there is no center, or all points are the center. Because it looks the same in ANY direction from ANYWHERE.
Just because you were taught something doesn't in and of itself make it true. That would be accepting such a thing to be "self-evident," which is a fallacy. For example, it is a fallacy to make the claim that the "earth moves because we already know that it does." That is the trap that is "self-evident," or more aptly as Bessler's words, "putting the cart before the horse."
Silvertiger wrote:The CMB alignment with earth's ecliptic plane has revealed the anisotropic qualities of the CMB. While much of the CMB is isotropic, these temperature gradients contain enough anisotropic data to map out earth's location in the cosmos using the direction and coordinates established by this anisotropic data itself - a map with a two-axis coordinate system if you will. Any anisotropy inherent in the CMB can be, and already has been, utilized to establish direction in the universe, which has been shown to be nonhomogeneous.
The foundation of modern cosmology relies on the so-called cosmological principle which states an homogeneous and isotropic distribution of matter in the universe on large scales. However, recent observations, such as the temperature anisotropy of the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, the motion of galaxies in the universe, the polarization of quasars and the acceleration of the cosmic expansion, indicate preferred directions in the sky. If these directions have a cosmological origin, the cosmological principle would be violated, and modern cosmology should be reconsidered.

- Paper, Preferred Axis in Cosmology, 5May2016
But when you look at the CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.

- Lawrence Krauss, Threoretical Physicist, Cosmologist, Director Origins Project, Arizona State University
Fletcher wrote:However we were told there was no center of the universe per se, like you might expect for a chemical explosion. Proved by WMAP etc in that the universe appears flat at local level but could be spherical and closed in its entirety.
WMAP proved nothing of the sort. In fact, it showed the very opposite of what they were expecting...that's WHY Planck was launched, and Planck confirmed the exact same thing that WMAP was showing! NASA scientists already had predetermined that a flat Euclidean space was needed for the Big Bang to "work." Why? Because they cannot get it to work with the two other Friedmann models available (e.g., an “open� universe that expands forever, or a “closed� universe that expands but eventually collapses in on itself). As physicist Andrei Linde admits:
A second trouble spot [for the Big Bang] is the flatness of space. General Relativity suggests that space may be very curved, with a typical radius on the order of the Planck length, or 10-33 centimeters. We see, however, that our universe is just about flat on a scale of 1028 centimeters, the radius of the observable part of the universe. This result of our observation differs from theoretical expectations by more than 60 orders of magnitude.
Fletcher wrote:And you don't have to be a genius to quickly work out that a 14.8 billion year old universe does not fit into a 93 billion light year diameter for the known (observable) universe. Fortunately IIRC scientists came to the rescue and said initial rapid inflation was faster than light (one theory). The take-away is that the universe is 93 billion light years across from ANY position in the universe IINM. Because we can only see light traveling to us from 14.8 billion years ago and no further.
I also find it most interesting that light can travel at whatever speed they deem necessary in order to force their model to work, but to claim that light is constant whenever a contradiction arises. That's most convenient...wouldn't you say? Even for an "opinion"? WMAP never did determine the age of the universe as certain claims state. It is merely an instrument that collects data. When that data passes through the hands of NASA, however, their scientists “determine� the results of WMAP data, and they do so only through their biased presuppositions that accord with the Big Bang theory, a failed theory that is dependent on invented props such as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, and Inflation; a theory which fails to provide answers for anomalies such as disparate redshift values for quasar-connected galaxies; shifting Hubble, Omega and Lambda values; and the incongruity of quantum mechanics and general relativity. Despite these anomalies, NASA systematically excludes all other interpretations of WMAP’s data.

But in REALITY here on earth, NASA chooses an age close to 13 billion years because its scientists naively believe that “carbon scattering� from supernovas created biological life; and they estimate that such a process would take at least 10 billion years. However, it cannot be much more than 10 billion years because by then all the stars would have used up their fuel and would cease to exist. So, 13.75 billion years is their safest bet LOL!!! XD

Also...shocker...WMAP showed a huge amount of empty space in the universe and consequently did not provide NASA with the matter and energy it needed for the Big Bang!

You continue to make the claim that space is "expanding" in the magic balloon world, but the reality is that, while NASA’s theory (based on its interpretation of 1a supernovas) claims that the universe is accelerating, they cannot find ANY matter or energy in deep space to propel the acceleration. They never have and they never will...because it doesn't exist.



And, since it is directly related to the vast distances proposed by balloon expansion...what about the "Horizon Problem"? Did you know that the Big Bang was threatened in the 1970's by this problem, and that it was one of the reasons for the ad-hoc-on-the-spot "creation" of modern inflation theory that was later "added" to the Big Bang?
Philosophy is the beginning of science; not the conclusion.
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Re: re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by Fletcher »

Fletcher wrote:
So to have a model of the universe with a stationary (non-rotating) earth at its center whereby the entire universe (observable PLUS unobservable) rotates around earth in 24 HOURS leaves me with indigestion. It won't stay down !

Just my opinions !
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Post by eccentrically1 »

What would Occam say?

This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpSy0Lkm3zM&t=82s
(2 dimensional, and the scale is misleading))

Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooITrws
(simulated 3 dimensional, also misleading scale)

There's a lot of videos about this - I just picked a couple out.

The other thing about this topic is there isn't any math that I recall other than Fletcher's for the speed of the edge of the observable universe in the geocentric model. Where's the math?

And, the unobservable universe could imply an infinite universe, which would answer a lot of heliocentric questions. I think that's why the heliocentric model is accepted over geocentric. And an infinite universe has infinite possibilities that would satisfy any spiritual belief or non-belief.
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by WaltzCee »

An infinite universe is absurd on its face. Infinity is a human construct.

Ideas that envolve what can't be seen are speculation and inconsistent
with the scientific method.
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by daanopperman »

Hi All

In our relation to the other planets we know they all orbit the sun , that has been known since ancient times , by observation , anyone can do that you just have to be patient . It is not science , a religion or cult .

I have deleted half the post for ethical reasons .

Daan
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by agor95 »

Hi Daan

Thanks for keeping your post short.

Add economic reasons. Also less cruelty to this tired thread ;-)
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by WaltzCee »

Igor makes an excellent point. Every one probably got the point as it relates to Bessler of
relative motion. What's moving? Your wheel or the universe?

Some one should start an off topic thread where we discuss scientific integrity and those
who worship it. Should it begin with Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels or Hitler? Mein Kampf
or the manifesto. The scopes monkey trial or Piltdown Man.

Walk this way.
No, this way.
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by raj »

HERE is my answer, based with my human senses I am born with.

I can see my wheel moving with my own eyes, feel it moving with my own hand, and hear the sound it makes moving with my own ears.

I CAN'T see the universe moving, nor feel it moving, neither hear it moving with the human senses I am born with.

I am only left with what other humans have left me to believe.
Keep learning till the end.
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Re: re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by WaltzCee »

agor95 wrote:Hi Daan

Thanks for keeping your post short.

Add economic reasons. Also less cruelty to this tired thread ;-)
By your own admission you're text adverse. Everyone is not like you though. No one
knows what might come of what seems irrelevant prattle. (put a winkie winkie ascii
emoticon here)

Now by your own admission you are willfully ignorant. And yet you want to be
chairman of some steering committee. My question is
  • Why would any thinking person want you in charge?
Suppose we expand your pair of dime. What's the change?

Picture a hord of all knowing all powerful demigods of the scientific class after the order
physicists descend upon our happy hunting ground. I speculate they would shut it down
and have us doing something useful like getting in their fields and picking their cotton.
We'd be their cotton picking cotton pickers.

You think not? Some time ago a member found the answer. He was getting press. He
was preparing his abode to invite the world to his house so they could see it. Trying to be
useful, I went to a physics forum posting links to his marvelous discovery. I was in search
of experts. I made 3 posts then was banned.

You might wonder what happened to this marvelous discovery. He painted it. We're still
waiting for the paint to dry.

ETA
Guess this is the right thread.
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Re: re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by WaltzCee »

raj wrote:HERE is my answer, based with my human senses I am born with.

I can see my wheel moving with my own eyes, feel it moving with my own hand, and hear the sound it makes moving with my own ears.

I CAN'T see the universe moving, nor feel it moving, neither hear it moving with the human senses I am born with.

I am only left with what other humans have left me to believe.
You fooled me Raj. I thought I was in your thread.

Knowing agor is text adverse and consequently willfully ignorant I don't want to put too
much in one post.

I do want to make a point. There was no answer up thread so I'll ask the cotton picking
question again.
  • If the earth is rotating at mach 1.3 at the equator,
    why isn't the air around us ripping us to shreds?
I'm lazy but not entirely so I went googling for answers. I found out the air and me and multi ton freight trains were harmoniously rotating at the same velocity. Really? Asking why and looking further I discovered gravity caused this.

That's where they lost me.
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by WaltzCee »

Now I have studied physics. I know gravity obeys certain mathematical expressions like a blind deaf mute. If memory serves me correctly
  • It's inversely proportional to the product
    of the mass of the ass^2 and the angle
    of the dangle.
If that is true why is a massive body like me treated by gravity the same as a speck of air?
I have a hypothesis.
Last edited by WaltzCee on Mon May 24, 2021 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by WaltzCee »

My hypothesis:
Although gravity obeys the dictates of its overlord, the previously cited
mathematical expression, it does so within the structure of an ancient yet benevolent
utterance of a mysterious haphazard accident summarized here:
  • All masses are created equal and endowed by accident with certain
    immutable rights. Firstly the right not to have to be pushed around by
    the mindless ignorant whims of gravity as if they were agor's useful idiots.

That's my hypothesis and I'm sticking to it.
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

Post by WaltzCee »

Best of luck Silvertiger. I'm going to disappear.
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re: The proof of earth's non-motion: the experiments

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Post by Silvertiger »

Explaining dark energy is no different than explaining an animal with wheels instead of legs. You can make all the convincing models of how both work you want...but at the end of the day it's still just somebody's fantasy. Find evidence for it, then it will be taken seriously. :)
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