Georg Künstler's Ideas...

[Michael]

Hi George,

Your last drawing. It won't work, not the way you have it drawn. The angle isn't steep enough. And no matter how far away you place the starting point what matters is the vertical distance.
Give gravity time to work is actually meaningless. Sorry.

Michael

[Sevich]

Hi George, I feel that your's and Bessler's is one and the same. After reading John Collins book over and over again it's just like magic!!! It makes me think are there are any other designs as strong as this one that use's gravity power ??.... NO WAY! (the mechanism is simple, in all my life I've never seen anything like it or resembling it in any of today's modern machines or any books! nowhere to be found or seen! Regards........................................Sevich

[Jonathan]

Sevich, I emplore you to spread this newfound wisdom by emailing me about how any of this makes sense. I do have email, it is on the email button.

[Sevich]

Hi Jonathan, I think it's better if I leave this for George to explain to the board. After all this is (George Kunstler's Ideas) is it not?)........I need time to soak it up myself. Regards.....................Sevich

[Jonathan]

Hey I think I just got it, and I have now proved to myself that Georg doesn't completely understand Newton. But then, I'm not sure it matters. If I understand correctly, the object goes down the plane and hits the block. Some of it's momentum then gets redirected to fling it upwards (I assume that most of the mass is in the black blob). This idea is interesting, and I will look into it. But, there are a few annoying details. He says:

it is like a staff-high-jump [sic](probably: pole-vaulting). Jump up in zero time.

It doesn't jump up in zero time, but I bet it would be fast.
Also:

give gravity time to act. Think of water in a river. Speed has nothing to do with m*g*h.

I see now what you mean by gravity having to do with time. But so did Newton, you have misunderstood him. Newton said potential energy equals m*g*h, he never said speed. In this very particular case, the final velocity is:
v=sqrt(2*h*g*sin(theta))
where h is the height of the center of the objects mass, and theta is the slope of the ramp. This calculation assumes a priori that the slope of the ramp is constant, there is no initial velocity, there is no friction, and that it takes a nonzero time for the weight to fall (because gravity isn't infinitly strong). But given that gravity is constant, if one wants to get it to fall for a longer time, it must start higher up. That is where Georg is getting this stuff about time. I see it now, Georg, Bessler, and Newton do all get along.

[jim_mich]

Georg's gk_09_running_down.gif... 'runing downhill, jumping up'

If the center of mass/gravity of both wheels are the same distance from the inclined surface, then there will be no 'jumping up'. Only when the center of mass/gravity of the black wheel is above the pivot point at the axel of the white wheel will the black wheel jump off the surface. It is simply a matter of inertial kinetic force vectors.

[Stewart]

Jim - That's what I thought too, so I tried a few experiments. There is no 'jumping' effect at all when both wheels are the same size, no matter how much the black wheel weighs, or what the angle of incline is. All that happens on impact is the device bounces off and back up the inclined plane. I thought a larger black wheel was the answer, but when I tried this I saw no noticable 'jumping' effect.

Georg - I've never had trouble understanding your words, but I've always found your diagrams very confusing. I'm fascinated by your ideas, inventions and the experimental devices shown on your website, and really want to understand your latest wheel idea. Please explain if there is something missing from the diagram that is needed for the 'jumping' effect, or how I've misinterpreted your diagram. The only way I can think that this might work is if the bar joining the two wheels is quite flexible and flicks the black wheel up after being flexed on impact, similar to a pole-vaulter (which you mention in the text). I haven't experimented with this yet though.
Can you also clarify if you have a working wheel based on these principles, or is this all theoretical. Many thanks.

All the best
Stewart

Just an after-thought: If Bessler's Wheel did contain such a "pole-vaulting" device then it could explain the line "the bow twangs" in Apologia Poetica!

[Jonathan]

Sorry all, I made one of those stupid mistakes again, the equation is:
v=sqrt(2gh)
As to the recent posts after mine, I agree. The diagram seems to show a rigid rod, and a momentum diagram shows that all the momentum is wasted and not used to lift it. However, is the rod is elastic and flexible, then it will work. Because one can very efficiently store the kinetic energy in elastic potential energy, and then release it in a different direction (given a small input, like the pole-vaulter jumping at the right time), lifting the body. I don't think it'll do anything overunity, but I havn't done the math and am not good with elastic things.
Anyone have an elastic rod and some free time?

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Jim_mich and Steward,

I think you both did not understand what i showed with my drawings.
So i like to explain it in words.

First have a look on 'balanced too'. In this construction, one eccenterweight is up, the other down. The smallest push, and the rollers
will roll sidewards. But what will happen when we put such a construction
on a lever ? One lever arm will be pressed down, the other lifted.

So it is like a roller, carrying a excenterweight rolling downhill. When we try to stop it, and the weight is in direction uphill, the weight(black) will be lifted(showed in running downhill). This is the jumping up function. So again: if you stop a roller carrying a eccenterweight suddenly, the roller beginns to turn. This turning is used to climb up.

This function, swinging and blocking was shown under oscillation.

Hope you understand it better now.

[John Lindsay]

Does this roll-down-the-ramp thing work? I took pole-vaulting in high school and a lot of the body-lifting action came from pushing down on the pole in a certain way at the right time. John

[Stewart]

Hi Georg

Thanks for explaining - it all makes sense now. When I saw the photos in your "Name searched" post I realised that you probably meant that the weight of the black wheel in the diagram was eccentric and so I made a crude model to test the idea. Although I've only done a few tests and the model isn't very good I am definately seeing a 'jumping' effect on impact. I'll try another model with more weight and I should get a bigger jump. At least now I understand what you mean. Thanks for being so patient with us - it can't be easy! :)

All the best
Stewart

[Georg Künstler]

To all,
of course we can also have a 'jump-down' during the hit(for the mathematicans). This is depending on, where the eccentric-weight is actually during the hit. Is it lower or higher than horizontal level. So with this function, you can act with, or against a movement, depending on when the roller hits the wall. For the Bessler construction we use the Up-Jump, to transfer energy to the big wheel.

This when is not a translation error !! Because during rolling sidewards, when will the eccenterweight be higher than horizontal level. Only then, the hit is allowed.

Sorry, that my knowledge of english is limited, but some times i am also speechless in german, because this are new functions, and we had to explain it in new words. So when I had tell you for a month only with words 'Well balanced too', a function, you will not be able to understand what i am talking about. What I try, is, to solve our speech babylon during conversation. Maybe, this way takes longer, but it leads definately to success und understanding for the most members of the board.

[hartiberlin]

Hi Georg,
why don´t you just post a video of your working device ?
How long should we still wait to see anything "real" from you ????
The more drawings you are posting the moree confusing it gets !
Just post a video !!!!!!

Regards, Stefan.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Stefan,
I must not make a video. Everyone can see this function on a 'Kindergartenspielplatz'. Two children are walking on a lever(Schaukel).

The child downwards reaches with his hands a tree( Ast, Stange), and swing. The lever will now pressed down from the child upwards.

Just take two children and go to the 'Kinderspielplatz' and make this cheap experiment with the lever. Millions of this levers are existing worldwide, and everyone can proofe this function.

I do it not with children, I do it with eccenterrollers, shown in 'WELL BALANCED TOO'.

If you had a video camera, take a video from the walking and swinging childs.

[hartiberlin]

Hallo Georg,
why are you too shy to post a video ?
Don´t you have any guts ??
I don´t understand your example with the kids and the lever...

Why don´t you just anonymously post at least a few pictures, if you
don´t want to stand with your own name behind the invention ??

It makes no sense to me..

Jetzt mal auf Deutsch:
Wieso hast Du eigentlich so eine Angst es zu veröffentlichen ?
Wenn das Geheimniss erst mal raus ist und jeder weiss, wie man so ein Ding baut, dann brauchst Du doch keine Angst zu haben...
Also wenn es wirklich funktioniert bei Dir, dann solltest Du eher Angst haben, wenn Du es NICHT veröffentlichst, denn dann sind doch eher
die Geheimdienste dran interessiert , es Dir abzuluchsen !

Naja, so langsam, wie es hier vorangeht und dann
auch nicht richtig erklärt wird, verwirrt es doch eher die Leute,
als es Ihnen hilft...

Mir kommt es so vor, als ob es bei Dir doch nicht läuft und Du nun
versuchst, es zu verschleiern....
Sorry, aber so sehe ich es nun mal...

Trotzdem frohes Fest,
Gruss, Harti.