First let me say welcome !
Second, Yes the drawings on orffyre.com is identical to Besslers handwritings..
Third, your first drawing is principly identical to MT26, wich I have run through computer simulation, and it don`t work :-(
Nice try, keep up the good work :-)
Øystein
Would this work?
Moderator: scott
re: Would this work?
Hello Jessica, and welcome!
I have a question for you and the rest of the group.
There's something odd about the pendulum on the drawings page, second pic down.
I drew it out, the scale I used here shows the lengths from the bottom "football" weight to the upper "round" weights to be 5 1/4"long here. The distance from "round" to "round" measures 2 7/8" here.
The angle formed at the "football" measures about 32 degrees.
If I draw it all out, go halfway up all sides (2 5/8", 2 5/8" and 1 7/16" repectively) and do a 90 degree perpendicular from each, they NEVER EVER cross in the center.
Believing that my drawing was not accurate enough, I repeated this exercise over and over, with the same result.
The center point of this triangle appears off. ???
Regards
grim
I have a question for you and the rest of the group.
There's something odd about the pendulum on the drawings page, second pic down.
I drew it out, the scale I used here shows the lengths from the bottom "football" weight to the upper "round" weights to be 5 1/4"long here. The distance from "round" to "round" measures 2 7/8" here.
The angle formed at the "football" measures about 32 degrees.
If I draw it all out, go halfway up all sides (2 5/8", 2 5/8" and 1 7/16" repectively) and do a 90 degree perpendicular from each, they NEVER EVER cross in the center.
Believing that my drawing was not accurate enough, I repeated this exercise over and over, with the same result.
The center point of this triangle appears off. ???
Regards
grim
re: Would this work?
Sorry grim, I couldn't undstand what you were saying. It seemed like you were refeing to this: http://www.orffyre.com/Merseburg2.jpg But there are several differences and I completely lose you when you get to the perpendicular part. BTW, what specifically did you mean by that comment about Fletcher?
EDIT
I just figured out what you meant, it is the second figure of the third picture. So what do you mean by 'the center'? Is it the center of the wheel or the center of the triangle (somewhere on the bar that has the number 8 on it)? In each I can tell by just looking that it isn't supposed to. Or do you mean that where they cross doesn't lie anywhere on that bar marked 8? If this is the case I'd tell you that the drawing surface isn't flat, that the perpendicular you're using isn't, or that the lines you've draw aren't straight.
Note that by 'bar marked 8' I know there are several 8's in the picture, but there is only one bar where the 8 is actually written over it.
EDIT
I just figured out what you meant, it is the second figure of the third picture. So what do you mean by 'the center'? Is it the center of the wheel or the center of the triangle (somewhere on the bar that has the number 8 on it)? In each I can tell by just looking that it isn't supposed to. Or do you mean that where they cross doesn't lie anywhere on that bar marked 8? If this is the case I'd tell you that the drawing surface isn't flat, that the perpendicular you're using isn't, or that the lines you've draw aren't straight.
Note that by 'bar marked 8' I know there are several 8's in the picture, but there is only one bar where the 8 is actually written over it.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
re: Would this work?
Time to check up on properties of isoceles triangles.
Fletcher's "peacock tail" could be tested using a wheel with four solid spokes. At the hub area, attach a hinge to each spoke (right side). On this hinge attach a spoke with a weight at the top, so as the spoke combo approaches 12:00 position the weight and IT'S spoke drops due to the hinge, to the right, away from the solid fixed spoke.. Let it hit a stop, but have a spring attached so it slows it and doesn't demolish the stop.
At the bottom (6:00) the weight would come off the stop and lay against the fixed spoke for the ride back up.
"As long as the "upper" weight remains out of the center of gravity". Also would eliminate Mr. Tim's "keel effect", as the weights would maintain the same radius path, except at the top, and there it would be so far out of COG it shouldn't matter. Actually it should start to lighten about 10:00 position, so an "appendage" and small weight attached to the main weight
would certainly aid the timing, both throw and return.
grim
Fletcher's "peacock tail" could be tested using a wheel with four solid spokes. At the hub area, attach a hinge to each spoke (right side). On this hinge attach a spoke with a weight at the top, so as the spoke combo approaches 12:00 position the weight and IT'S spoke drops due to the hinge, to the right, away from the solid fixed spoke.. Let it hit a stop, but have a spring attached so it slows it and doesn't demolish the stop.
At the bottom (6:00) the weight would come off the stop and lay against the fixed spoke for the ride back up.
"As long as the "upper" weight remains out of the center of gravity". Also would eliminate Mr. Tim's "keel effect", as the weights would maintain the same radius path, except at the top, and there it would be so far out of COG it shouldn't matter. Actually it should start to lighten about 10:00 position, so an "appendage" and small weight attached to the main weight
would certainly aid the timing, both throw and return.
grim
re: Would this work?
Yes. I believe isoceles triangles were a big factor in the wheel. Not a clean cut image but here is something others will have an easier time understanding when reading this post.
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re: Would this work?
Oh, you are refering to his idea on the other forum.
It also occurs to me that, if it matters to you, for the center of the triangle's mass to be at the intersection of the three perpendicular bisectors, the triangle would have to have uniform mass distribution.
EDIT
I was confused, that idea from another forum is by Joel Wright, so I guess you're kinda combining ideas.
It also occurs to me that, if it matters to you, for the center of the triangle's mass to be at the intersection of the three perpendicular bisectors, the triangle would have to have uniform mass distribution.
EDIT
I was confused, that idea from another forum is by Joel Wright, so I guess you're kinda combining ideas.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
re: Would this work?
Yes, that point matters because if the triangle's properties don't allow it to be side-centered from"base to apex", adding those extra weights would really throw it out of kilter.
By the way, I did a little "hands on" here that came out interesting. I put four of those old 1 1/2 pound lead weights on their disk in a configuration to be initially balanced, i.e., no "keel" effect. Not bottom-heavy seems important.
The top weight only had to be moved 1/4" out of COG for it to want to roll the wheel on its bearings, so it really doesn't take much.
Too many options have arisen on this end. Time to choose one and build.
Regards
grim
By the way, I did a little "hands on" here that came out interesting. I put four of those old 1 1/2 pound lead weights on their disk in a configuration to be initially balanced, i.e., no "keel" effect. Not bottom-heavy seems important.
The top weight only had to be moved 1/4" out of COG for it to want to roll the wheel on its bearings, so it really doesn't take much.
Too many options have arisen on this end. Time to choose one and build.
Regards
grim
re: Would this work?
Now that is really neat! Where are these coming from?! Though I don't think it would work in that exact form, I think it is a very good idea and some variation might work.
I don't think it will work exactly as shown because once the ball jumps back on the pendulum it changes the center of mass such that it suddenly loses potential energy, and will not be able to fall all the way until the platform is horizontal, so the ball will never make it back to the right.
I don't think it will work exactly as shown because once the ball jumps back on the pendulum it changes the center of mass such that it suddenly loses potential energy, and will not be able to fall all the way until the platform is horizontal, so the ball will never make it back to the right.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
re: Would this work?
So a new configuration of the platform should fix that. Maybe in the form of a concave roundroad which will allow it to build energy as it crosses the axis.
Darn! I also forgot to say that when the coil gets released that energy pushed the unbalanced big outside wheel (NOT SHOWN) over the 12 o'clock mark. Wheeew! Sorry.
I'm sorry the picture suppose to say that the pawls may be the buyer rods.
Darn! I also forgot to say that when the coil gets released that energy pushed the unbalanced big outside wheel (NOT SHOWN) over the 12 o'clock mark. Wheeew! Sorry.
I'm sorry the picture suppose to say that the pawls may be the buyer rods.
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re: Would this work?
Hi Jessica;
Looks great.
I think this gravity wheel will certainly work when 'engaged'. Especially with the armature and motor attached.
EDIT: oops, I meant to say armature and winding magnet attached.
(Note to self: I wonder if this reminds me of my old friend Tommitchy going to the USPTO? do you think people will actually go through hoops to test the 'integrity' of their audience? hmmm)
Looks great.
I think this gravity wheel will certainly work when 'engaged'. Especially with the armature and motor attached.
EDIT: oops, I meant to say armature and winding magnet attached.
(Note to self: I wonder if this reminds me of my old friend Tommitchy going to the USPTO? do you think people will actually go through hoops to test the 'integrity' of their audience? hmmm)
re: Would this work?
No. I am saying to eliminate the magnet and armature.
re: Would this work?
Hi Jessica;
Oh, I see. Well even if you eliminate the magnet and armature; it is still an interesting concept. You are very imaginitive, it is great to see so many new ideas posted. Thank you for sharing them.
Oh, I see. Well even if you eliminate the magnet and armature; it is still an interesting concept. You are very imaginitive, it is great to see so many new ideas posted. Thank you for sharing them.
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Georg Künstler
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re: Would this work?
Hi Jessica,
my compliment, you are very, very close to the solution. As I said before,
I don't like to be the frontrunning man with this technic, it may be dangerous. If the princible is clear, many, many solutions are possible.
Have a look to http://www.evert.de
On a page he described perpetuum mobile of third art. It is also written in english.
I agree with this content. This princible is common, not only for Bessler.
Best regards
Georg
my compliment, you are very, very close to the solution. As I said before,
I don't like to be the frontrunning man with this technic, it may be dangerous. If the princible is clear, many, many solutions are possible.
Have a look to http://www.evert.de
On a page he described perpetuum mobile of third art. It is also written in english.
I agree with this content. This princible is common, not only for Bessler.
Best regards
Georg
Re: re: Would this work?
Thank you. Yes I also think so.Georg Künstler wrote:Hi Jessica,
my compliment, you are very, very close to the solution.
Georg Künstler wrote:I don't like to be the frontrunning man with this technic, it may be dangerous.
Why? You don't believe in conspiracy theories do you?
I see on your page that you have built a very nice wooden replica JB wheel and another drum device that looks like a rotisserie so I don't think you worry much if you are freely posting these devices to the world.
Do you mean dangerous because of the large weights?