Is the Jet Stream broken?

[Wheeler]

Thanks Jim
I tried it again, and it worked.

Listen I am not saying we need to do anything except try to look at ourselfs.
I think we can do better, and I plan on being part of a big change.

If you are on the Bessler wheel forum, you most likely want new and better ways for us and our children.

[winkle]

jim_mich wrote

It was around this time that Lake Erie caught fire. The Raisin River that runs through my home town used to have turds and toilet paper floating in it.

way back then

i remember seeing a sign hanging on a urinal that had one of those white deodorant bars laying the bottom

sign said attention hippies the rock candy is not for you


i was wondering did anyone had put a sign up telling folks not to eat the Raisin river raisins
and also not to use the napkins floating close to them

[Kirk]

Kirk wrote

So global warming is just us returning to what was. Not worth getting excited about.

Russian roulette

A stunt in which one spins the cylinder of a revolver loaded with only one bullet, aims the muzzle at one's head, and pulls the trigger.

An act of reckless bravado


will you play Russian roulette with me I’m bored playing by myself

thats the point - it is changing without mans effort. Not us playing roulette.
If you want to talk about roulette how about genetically modified organisms?

[winkle]

Kirk wrote

thats the point - it is changing without mans effort. Not us playing roulette.

we may not agree about those greenhouse gases

it does not appear to me that nature is the one burning all that coal and oil

not to mention most of the forest in the world

If you want to talk about roulette how about genetically modified organisms

a very good point

we may not agree on the first
but
we seam to be in lockstep on the second


i completely agree with that roulette usage


and on top of that

that dang quote thing is giving me a hard time

[Wheeler]

Check out this link to what Spencer Weart, director of AIP's Center for History of Physics,is saying about global warming.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/527013/

[ovyyus]

Yes, it seems that the mounting evidence must finally be undeniable - that global warming is primarily the result of atmospheric CO2 rise from fossil fuel burning.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21 ... 02,00.html

"February 2, 2007 may be remembered as the day the question mark was removed from whether (people) are to blame for climate change," said Achim Steiner, head of the UN Environment Programme.

The news last night reported that the petrochemical industry is offering $13000 to any scientists who will step forward and denounce the report.

[MrTim]

Huh, and 30 years ago they were screaming about...

Science magazine (Dec. 10, 1976) warned of "extensive Northern Hemisphere glaciation."
Science Digest (February 1973) reported that "the world's climatologists are agreed" that we must "prepare for the next ice age."
The Christian Science Monitor ("Warning: Earth's Climate is Changing Faster Than Even Experts Expect," Aug. 27, 1974)
New York Times (Sept. 14, 1975) said "may mark the return to another ice age."
The Times (May 21, 1975) also said "a major cooling of the climate is widely considered inevitable"
The New York Times (Aug. 14, 1975) reported "many signs" that "Earth may be heading for another ice age."
Science magazine (Dec. 10, 1976) warned about "extensive Northern Hemisphere glaciation."
"Continued rapid cooling of the Earth" (Global Ecology, 1971)
...could herald "a full-blown 10,000-year ice age" (Science, March 1, 1975).

Thirty years from now, it'll change from "global warming" to "global cooling" again....

[ovyyus]

30 years is a long time in such a complex area of study MrTim. Certainly in the early/mid 70's natural cyclical temperature variations might have looked like a general cooling trend was under way, but the snap shot back then was based on limited data and understanding.

I think the research has become quite clear where things are really heading - regardless of the ongoing vested interest propaganda campaign which seems to promote unrestrained consumerism at all cost.

Go back in time even further and you'll find people claiming the earth is flat - some still do!

[MrTim]

And yet now they have complete and accurate data proving "global warming"? Especially from supposedly accurate data collected from over the past 100+ years? And they are predicting "global warming" effects into the next 100, even 1,000 years?
Sorry, not buying into it.

The real cause of "global warming" is right up there in the sky. It's called the Sun. Even Mars is showing signs of it's own "global warming". Must be because of all the CO2 emissions the Mars rovers are pumping into the Martian atmosphere....

[Wheeler]

I not sure, but it sounds like Mr.Tim needs more proof.
Well lets just see what we can come up with.

[Wheeler]

Here is some simple facts uncovered!

[ovyyus]

Funning aside, the CO2 vs global temperature graph for the last 400 000 years (taken from Vostok ice cores) shows the obvious close correlation between atmospheric CO2 level and temperature change - they clearly rise and fall together.

A close-up view of CO2 levels over the last 1000 years (graph to about year 2000) indicates interesting 'coincidences' with the onset and development of the industrial age. CO2 levels are currently off the chart.

Near future projections of atmospheric CO2 based on expected (promoted) human activity is alarming to say the least. At what point on the CO2/temperature graph do our icecaps melt? Scary stuff!

MrTim, I wish I had your confidence that everything's fine and there's nothing we can do. I wish the evidence didn't suggest otherwise.

[Wheeler]

That level of co2 is important and I wonder when we reach the point of total saturation. A level where it shuts us down for awhile.

If we get sick, we stop going to work and playing. If we get real sick, we recover slow, meanwhile the earth can clean up some of the mess and then we would see it clearly.

I noticed that because the temp. was so warm, everyone gets on the road and puts more heat and co2 into the air, so the higher temperatures makes us want to do more and up goes the co2

Attached is what I wonder about the change in patterns of the Jet stream
Left is 2007 today and right is 2004 same day.

It is almost like it runs into something now!

[winkle]

proof is a good thing

i hope folks that play hunches don't get control of the legal system

if they do i can see it now

we don't need any evidence your guilty i can tell by looking at you



was it possible two thousand years ago for anyone to foresee the possibility that man might be able to destroy the earth

and yet this is found in scripture in Re:11:18:

and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[Vic Hays]

Funning aside, the CO2 vs global temperature graph for the last 400 000 years (taken from Vostok ice cores) shows the obvious close correlation between atmospheric CO2 level and temperature change - they clearly rise and fall together.

It is quite possible that the evidence points to CO2 driving temperatures up. There is another possibility.

I was looking at the chart and I noticed that while the temp and CO2 rise nearly at the same time, the CO2 lags AFTER the temp increase.

Perhaps the temperature increase causes an increase in CO2 as fermentation and trapped carbon beguns to be released with the melting of permafrost and release of methane.

I understand that right now the permafrost is melting and the release of CO2 will be on a scale that mankind could not match by burning fuel.