Is DNA a universal constant?

[DrWhat]

We enter life wrinkly, depart this life wrinkly. I guess life is simply a journey between wrinkles!

[Jim Williams]

DrWhat

In 1965 I learned from a Time/Life science book that here are 10 to the 78th power number of particles in the known universe, while there are 10 to the 2040th power possible combinations of a single DNA molecule. My reaction to thinking of DNA that way was "but that's finite!?" I also read in "One, Two, Three, Infinity" there are 3 x 10 to the 74th power atoms in the known universe so I would guess Time/Life knows what it's talking about, being roughly a ballpark figure. I don't know where they got the DNA number, but later I remembered that as soon as a single particle appears or disappears from that single molecule it is a completely unique new molecule and I felt a lot better.

I think you are entirely correct. First, when DNA replicates it tends to do so not perfectly and the new DNA is usually different in some way. I agree and guess you are right that DNA changes all by itself during its existence as well, even if it is only by one particle every once in awhile. Good thought. I wonder if it is correct.

[winkle]

just for the heck of it consider that maybe a higher power created DNA
with all the thousands of gene switches built into it and the apparent blank spaces which seem to serve no useful purpose but who can know for sure the changes you speak of could have been built in from the beginning
i suppose what i am saying is the end result would be the same weather by design or accident with the knowledge we have at this time
we are at this present time and it is early and we can not know for sure
it seems to me as though the two sides are demanding to be right just because each side wants to be right much like children
there is no definitive proof either way
not one evolution of any creature to look at and we can not see God
however we can see the result of one or the other
why is it impossible for so many people to just wait for the proof rather than trying to impose their vews on others
i understand the prevous post are for discusson not shoveing vew points and discusson is a a good thing

[Techstuf]

why is it impossible for so many people to just wait for the proof rather than trying to impose their vews on others

Well, let's say for a moment that you were God. Wouldn't you want a thorough test of we little folk before letting us out of the 'simulator' to replace the 1/3rd in heaven who got booted down here to spend an hour with us? One doesn't really require godship status to see the critical value of trust, i.e. faith, to the healthy maintenance of any society. Those who rely only on proofs, offer themselves as proof of deficiency for the level of trust required to be permitted to ascend to higher status, in a society where faith in one another is of even greater importance.

I find it highly hypocritical that weakling men, who require faith from their mate, their kids, even the family dog, ridicule the very notion that One higher than themselves might expect the same. Regarding the existence of a Supreme Being.....one would do well to examine more closely the Biblical record. There is much found there that cannot reasonably be attributed to blind chance, coincidence, or fanciful imagination.

Why, it wasn't so very long ago when the 'braintrusts' of science ridiculed the 'primitive' fairytale of God taking a rib from Adam to make Eve. Only to end up exploiting a similar maneuver by learning to remove up to six ribs at a time from human patients for bone marrow transplants and DNA research.....because of the peculiar nature of the human rib to grow back every time it is carefully removed.

When some self proclaimed genius can reasonably explain how a butterfly can imprint nearly photo perfect duplications of an owl's eyes, right down to the glint of the pupils, on itself in an attempt to scare the smaller birds that prey upon it, I would certainly hear them out. But as even a child can see.....there are only really two considerations in such example. The owl butterfly was gifted by some fantasically intelligent agency capable of recognizing what butterfly eating birds are afraid of, and then managed to write the exact code to duplicate it's eyeballs, photo perfect, onto itself. Or those miraculous single cells bumped into each other accidently the right way, to help keep nature's balance yet again. For the umpteenth time. Squared.

There is a time swift in coming, when Yahshua will cease knocking on the hearts of men. Their test, completed. And as those who've read His words can attest, no greater love can a man have for human kind, than that One.



God bless,


TS

[Jim Williams]

If memory serves, forget the one particle appearing and disappearing stuff and add these two facts together. One, DNA very rarely, if ever, exactly replicates itself. Two, the human body replaces all its matter with other matter every seven years. DrWhat must be right. We are in continuous evolution.

Winkle, you're right I guess, although...

Techstuf, the owl butterfly is evolution based. As the butterflies mutated over time the last butterflies to be eaten first, so far, are the one with the owl eyes.

Jim W.

[DrWhat]

True Jim. I agree that the Owl Butterfly is probably the worst possible demonstration of a higher intelligence (ie God) if you are trying to prove creation. In fact the Owl Butterfly is a brilliant textbook example of evolution.

The answer however is simple, and many ignore this fact:

God CREATED evolution!

It is an insult to God (however we define God) to downplay 'his' intelligence.

[Techstuf]

I agree that the Owl Butterfly is probably the worst possible demonstration of a higher intelligence

I doubt such comment will win you a place at His table!


There are less productive examples everywhere.


God bless,



TS

[Techstuf]

Famous and thoughtful refutations on evolution.


http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/SBS777/vital/evolutio.html


It's no wonder so many learned men have come to see higher reason. On our best day, we are challenged to reverse engineer what has come before us. Take for example, the lowly Pistol Shrimp. Some of the brightest minds in energy research are beginning to take notice of the peculiar nature of cavitation energy, particularly Sonoluminescence. Sonofusion is big research. And at least one company, Hydrodynamics INC., founded by Joe Griggs, who, having shown great ingenuity, has capitalized on such effects. His device is rumored to put out more energy as heat than is required to run the device. No surprise there.


http://www.educatedearth.net/video.php?id=3366


Ask a programmer how hard it is to write good code.....He'll be the first to tell you that it's no accident. It's also an easy matter for him to hit the 'delete' key and move on to bigger and better things.


All things considered, when our test is complete, I suspect it may go better for the Pistol Shrimp, than for many of we human 'shrimps'....who continually choose to ignore the Hand of God, rather than acknowledge the vast array of evidences as to His wisdom.


God bless,


TS

[MrTim]

i suppose they might also need to learn how to replicate a power plant
mabe learn to mine copper and gold
build a wire factory
and on
and on
and on
(...)
replicaters may not be that intelligent

Nanotechnology is reaching the point where the little buggers can extract energy from their surroundings.
And even if replicating themselves is the only thing they can do, it's their first step toward "evolution". Give them a few million years, and who knows what will eventually grow from that...? ;)

[Techstuf]

Give them a few million years, and who knows what will eventually grow from that...? ;)

http://www.organicconsumers.org/article ... le_637.cfm

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 66,00.html

http://www.beholders.org/nanopollution.htm


Yeah, seems we're in for a real treat!


Garbage in, Garbage out.


And let us not forget the decades of focussed intelligence by 'higher beings' that gave them their start.



God bless,


TS

[winkle]

Techstuf
i do not disagree with much that i have read in your post
but one thing i do know is that shoving religion at folks like it was a pitch fork is not the best avenue to success
it all to often sends folks in the other direction
but after it's all said and done i find your postings interesting


MrTim

Nanotechnology is reaching the point where the little buggers can extract energy from their surroundings.
quote]

i suppose that's what every creature else does in one fashion or another
you know a head of cabbage here a mouse there maybe a ribeye for this one and a bug for the other
free energy is every where
now if they were able to make energy from nothing

And even if replicating themselves is the only thing they can do, it's their first step toward "evolution". Give them a few million years, and who knows what will eventually grow from that...? ;)

do you ever get the feeling that a looped video is on the evolutionary path

[Jim Williams]

what has my attention more than anything is that the molecule that is DNA is only five and a half feet long all stretched out. I don't know of any actual law that says that there is a limit to the number of atoms that can bind together to form one molecule. Why not 12 1/2 feet of atoms instead? Is there a natural limit defined by say the speed of gravity which is the speed of light? Or did DNA just reach a point in its evolution into existence that it began replicating itself and that spelled the end of adding more atoms.

I agree, God created evolution is a good starting point for any discussion about the existense of God.

[Techstuf]

but one thing i do know is that shoving religion at folks like it was a pitch fork is not the best avenue to success

Well, it's not like it was extended in derision. Besides, it has been offered handle first. The love of Yahshua will not be appreciated by some, without first experiencing His disapproval. (See the book of the Revelation to John)


As I'm sure you are aware, there are many avenues to understanding....


Lasso a falling man with a 1,000 licorice ropes of loving truth and he will, often enough, chew through them all. While a single strand of barbed wire, studded with truths of the more pointed variety may help prove to him that he needn't sink his teeth deeply into everything in order to see higher reason.

For some it's a harder path is all. If a man is mired in the quicksand of his own feeble understanding....sometimes, at the last minute, he may accept even the handle of a metaphorical pitch fork rather than curse the darkness awaiting him.


One should always be reminded that this life is a test of fitness for admittance to a higher realm of existence. Those choosing to ignore it, to the extent that they are able, exercise their right to choose to abort themselves from a future existence. A prospect truly frightening to them.


I have been allowed to glimpse what's ahead....and am greatful to our Creator and my master, Yahshua, Jesus Christ.



http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/ark.htm



God bless,



TS

[winkle]

I agree, God created evolution is a good starting point for any discussion about the existense of God.

at this time the starting point is the finish point there is no proof

one thing is sure if God exists he created DNA and all of evolution may be contained in DNA

another thing that is sure is if evolution exists it does not disprove God and if God exists it does not disprove evolution

i don't know how folks think they are going to prove one and exclude the other

God must be taken on faith and at this point in time evolution must be taken in the same manner

some folks sure spend a of time trying to prove their self right by doing a lot of talking

the reason they talk so much is they have no proof

personally i think there is much proof available but seems to go the wrong direction for many folks

as i said before it's to early to prove these things but i am confident in due time the proof will be presented

Techstuf

Well, it's not like it was extended in derision. Besides, it has been offered handle first.

i do not disagree with that
that handle may even have a shock absorber on it
but seems like at times your trying to present proof when there is none
all the arm twisting in the world will not work
just remember this verse Joh:6:44: and this one Joh:6:37:

[Techstuf]

but seems like at times your trying to present proof when there is none

I see what you mean. And I do not take lightly your viewpoint as to my method.

However, such evidences as appreciated by Job, Abraham, Isaiah, David, and a host of other appreciative folks are good enough for me.


I just call 'em as I sees em. Some will appreciate such observations, many will not.


I'm content just being part of the process!



God bless,



Mitch