Thanks very much Fletcher.
I thought I'd read it, but couldn't remember where.
Loss of knowledge
Moderator: scott
-
Jim Williams
- Aficionado
- Posts: 734
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:08 pm
- Location: San Francisco
re: Loss of knowledge
Fletcher
Bessler doesn't seem to mention whether he showed the children how to play in the lane or if the children were showing themselves how to play, inadvertently practising perpetual motion. This raises the question Whether Bessler would have thought himself as the first to be aware of physical perpetual motion through his wheel, others in fact doing the same without awareness of what they were doing. I would guess he would have though he was unique only to his awareness of what he was doing compared to others, a uniqueness other would have lacked. I wonder if it is a measure of intelligence by other races throughout the Universe to have awareness of how practical perpetual motion does exist? This even if powered by gravity or CF? Or that perpetual motion doesn't exist?
Bessler doesn't seem to mention whether he showed the children how to play in the lane or if the children were showing themselves how to play, inadvertently practising perpetual motion. This raises the question Whether Bessler would have thought himself as the first to be aware of physical perpetual motion through his wheel, others in fact doing the same without awareness of what they were doing. I would guess he would have though he was unique only to his awareness of what he was doing compared to others, a uniqueness other would have lacked. I wonder if it is a measure of intelligence by other races throughout the Universe to have awareness of how practical perpetual motion does exist? This even if powered by gravity or CF? Or that perpetual motion doesn't exist?
re: Loss of knowledge
Jim .. Bessler would have been referring to children [blissfully unaware] using his principle while playing in the lane - they like us would not be aware of the wider implications & possibilities that he was able to deduce & use to his advantage - in other words, he saw its potential to be used for the harnessing & production of Free Energy.
Wagner talked about Bessler's superior force - else where Bessler called it excess weight or impetus - this makes complete sense if you have an unbalanced wheel where one side produces greater torque than the other [asymmetric torque].
Both John Collins & Stewart have speculated that the cryptic comment about children playing in the lane & using this force may relate to children tapping hoops i.e. giving one side of a rolling hoop an extra impetus to keep it rolling along - IIRC, JC thought that hoop tapping was specifically mentioned somewhere in one of the publications but that he couldn't find it again after having seen it one time.
While this seems quite logical in that it was a common childs game of the time it may not be the whole story & might have been more an image of convenience for Bessler to use - taken with the hammer men of the toy page & the fact that in both the bi-directional wheels of 1715 & 1721 gentle hitting noises were heard on the descending side of the wheels & hoop tapping [impact forces of a hammer wheel principle] looks a likely candidate for the superior force Wagner talks about - but, Bessler tells us that in MT that hammer wheels are fruitless as a PM principle as blows like bullets would break a wheel into a thousand pieces & therefore IMO it is at best an ancillary by-product of his machine - N.B. blows [kinetic energy transfer] in the direction of rotation do not waste any energy unnecessarily.
Where the case for the hoop tapping [impact] superior force [Prime Mover force] becomes even less convincing is the toy page again - there Bessler draws in a picture of a spinning top - this was also a common toy played with by children, most probably outside in the streets, but could also be presumably played inside as well - a spinning top doesn't much fit the description of hoop tapping IMO but there might be a case for CF's impacting the rim in a similar manner I would suppose ?
While Bessler may have identified children in the lane using his superior force the games & toys they used are by no means limited to tops & hoops, but it does seem clear that the game or activity was played outside, for good reason.
I can't speak for other races throughout the universe ;) but all things become obvious once discovered & even if an alien race had discovered Free Energy they might not call it Perpetual Motion, perhaps being wiser or more knowledgable than that.
Wagner talked about Bessler's superior force - else where Bessler called it excess weight or impetus - this makes complete sense if you have an unbalanced wheel where one side produces greater torque than the other [asymmetric torque].
Both John Collins & Stewart have speculated that the cryptic comment about children playing in the lane & using this force may relate to children tapping hoops i.e. giving one side of a rolling hoop an extra impetus to keep it rolling along - IIRC, JC thought that hoop tapping was specifically mentioned somewhere in one of the publications but that he couldn't find it again after having seen it one time.
While this seems quite logical in that it was a common childs game of the time it may not be the whole story & might have been more an image of convenience for Bessler to use - taken with the hammer men of the toy page & the fact that in both the bi-directional wheels of 1715 & 1721 gentle hitting noises were heard on the descending side of the wheels & hoop tapping [impact forces of a hammer wheel principle] looks a likely candidate for the superior force Wagner talks about - but, Bessler tells us that in MT that hammer wheels are fruitless as a PM principle as blows like bullets would break a wheel into a thousand pieces & therefore IMO it is at best an ancillary by-product of his machine - N.B. blows [kinetic energy transfer] in the direction of rotation do not waste any energy unnecessarily.
Where the case for the hoop tapping [impact] superior force [Prime Mover force] becomes even less convincing is the toy page again - there Bessler draws in a picture of a spinning top - this was also a common toy played with by children, most probably outside in the streets, but could also be presumably played inside as well - a spinning top doesn't much fit the description of hoop tapping IMO but there might be a case for CF's impacting the rim in a similar manner I would suppose ?
While Bessler may have identified children in the lane using his superior force the games & toys they used are by no means limited to tops & hoops, but it does seem clear that the game or activity was played outside, for good reason.
I can't speak for other races throughout the universe ;) but all things become obvious once discovered & even if an alien race had discovered Free Energy they might not call it Perpetual Motion, perhaps being wiser or more knowledgable than that.
-
rocky
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:55 pm
- Location: Anaheim (Disneyland) California
Instead of carving gear teeth with a file ...
ssmyser wrote:
“How many of our home 'workshops' are equipped to melt metal, and do perfect gear divisions? ...and how many of us are willing to spend hundreds of hours carving gear teeth with a file?�
America had the Erecter set and Europe had the Meccano set. Meccano has 6 times more parts then Erector including dozens of gears of different styles and sizes. See my attached photo of some of the 650 parts from my No. 10 Meccano set. I find it easy to quickly build and test mechanism ideas. My version of Bessler’s wheel is 4 feet in diameter. Meccano is still in wide use around the world with lots of clubs. You can still get large used sets in good condition online (eBay). The No. 10 set comes in a 4 drawer oak cabinet. I once made a model car with a working 3 speed manual transmission so you see it has precision made gears.
-rocky
“How many of our home 'workshops' are equipped to melt metal, and do perfect gear divisions? ...and how many of us are willing to spend hundreds of hours carving gear teeth with a file?�
America had the Erecter set and Europe had the Meccano set. Meccano has 6 times more parts then Erector including dozens of gears of different styles and sizes. See my attached photo of some of the 650 parts from my No. 10 Meccano set. I find it easy to quickly build and test mechanism ideas. My version of Bessler’s wheel is 4 feet in diameter. Meccano is still in wide use around the world with lots of clubs. You can still get large used sets in good condition online (eBay). The No. 10 set comes in a 4 drawer oak cabinet. I once made a model car with a working 3 speed manual transmission so you see it has precision made gears.
-rocky
- Attachments
-
- Some of the 650 parts that comes with the N.10 Meccano set - lots of gears.
re: Loss of knowledge
Rocky- that IS a nice set, and is much better equipped in terms of gears, etc. Last week, I found my old 'Lionel' building set, (Yes, the maker of trains), and found it 'lacking'. I've never heard of 'Meccano", I'll look on Ebay for one of these sets like yours. Thanks for the info on that, and especially the pic.