Tim Ventura's "Ion Wind" Device

[ovyyus]

Broli, I've learned that being slightly sceptical helps prevent me from swallowing any old made up story. You seem happy to believe that NASA and the government have somehow kept advanced, possibly alien, propulsion technology hidden from the public (including the world's leading scientific minds) for decades when these same people can't seem to manage a private blowjob from their secretary without making the six o'clock news. Go figure?

I certainly don't think Bessler's wheel was a 'questionable invention' in terms of it's potential utilitarian value, do you?

[broli]

I'm just saying there's little difference. Both have reasonable arguments. It's all good but the main question that should be asked is "Where does it leave me." You can be neck deep in theories and what not, but if it has no impact on your life then you're doing something not right. Sure some gov might have some alien technology, but where does that put me. It's not like I get this said technology in my hand if I acknowledge that theory, but I am open minded to it and accept that possibility.

[rlortie]

Google on "Townsend Brown" and the Bifield-Brown effect. There has hardly been a bigger cover up job of disinformation than this one. This guys work was highly classified, and with the military involved you can't believe anything that anyone says about this issue. If the public can be convinced that this effect is merely "ion-wind", the truth about this amazing discovery will remain a military secret.

It was at the point that this discovery was tested in a vacuum that this became highly classified.

Sorry but I could not disagree more! I learned of the so called "townsend Brown" or Bifield effect while enrolled in basic electronics in the U. S. Navy in 1957-8. There was no secret about it then and I have no reason to believe that 50 years has changed it.

One part of the education was to scratch build a power supply capable of driving a vertical axis four arm pin wheel looking like a lawn sprinkler in appearance. The final output was not unlike a Tesla coil producing well over 10,000 volts. A few years ago I duplicated the process using beer bottles filled with salt water, sitting in a grounded metal container also filled with salt water.The glass beer bottles have a dielectric constant of 4.2-4.9 compared to air having a "K" value of 1

Capacitance of a two plate air capacitor; The capacitance is directly proportional To the area of one plate, and inversely proportional to the degree of separation.

The concept of the center of mass in a charged capacitor being different than in an uncharged one has been a point of discussion dating back to before my time. It is a natural physical occurrence with capacitors, more so in days of old using vacuum tubes requiring much higher voltage than today's solid state circuitry.

Obviously capacitors function in a vacuum, but their size and shape dictates their value, and they always have two sides to produce a gradient between them. A lifter comprises one side of a capacitor and therefore needs something to push against. Either atmosphere or a grounded surface.

In late 1958 Popular Electronics magazine published a cartoon picture of sputnik dragging a copper wire attached to a ground rod stuck in a bucket of earth!

IMO ion or ionic wind is a dead duck after reaching an altitude comparable to the ionosphere ranging from altitudes of 30 to 250 miles (50 to 400 km)...

Ralph

[greendoor]

Thank you rlortie - very interesting. You were obviously taught that this effect is nothing more than ion wind, which is what I would expect you to have been taught (unless you had access to classified information). As I mentioned, I have read a very recent US Army white paper on lifters, and it repeats the same information and insists that it doesn't work in a vacuum.

And yet there is much evidence to suggest that TT Brown was involved in highly classified research and that there is much more to the effect he was working with. Probably more evidence that he was successful than there is to believe that Bessler was successful in his experiments.

I don't know - I first heard about TT Brown via Stan Deyo in the 1980's, and related to the Philadelphia Experiment. Just what exactly the military were doing, we are probably not going to find out the truth. But it probably wasn't the spin that was put on it for public consumption. Hence my comments about it being a big disinformation cover up ...

The Art of War is deception. It's been that way for a long time and continues to be that way.

[rlortie]

A Google search of the "Philadelphia Experiment" will bring up just about any and every conspiracy tale you wish to indulge yourself in. Any one who would believe in some of these stories would have no problem believing that a lifter will lift in a non-ionized environment.

Before doing so I suggest that first you do a search on "History of Radar" before making any conclusions. I believe in doing so will help shed a little light on what what may or may not have taken place on the Eldridge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Eldridge_(DE-173)

The ship may in fact had been dealing with research in what we now call "stealth". That is to either absorb or refract RF waves from bouncing back to the transmitted source. However the ships log is a little shy of stating that the ship was ever at the Philadelphia ship yards.

Ralph

[greendoor]

O yea of little faith ... I prefer to think that Einstein & his cronies stumbled on a bizarre effect whilst messing with large coils on that boat ... there are modern day examples of strange effects that sound suspiciously similar ... I don't believe we know all there is to know about electromagnetics yet, let alone gravitics ...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5150272.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchison_ ... son_effect (a fairly unashamed bashing of anything that smacks of perpetual motion - maybe this guy is a fraud, but who really knows when the military are involved ... first rule of war: deception)

I assume most people hanging out at this site have a disposition towards believing Bessler was not a fraud, and that there is more to science as we know it. I find it hard to see why a true skeptic would bother hanging out here, unless there was a deeper agenda.

As for conspiracy theories ... there aren't needed, because there are enough real conspiracies to be concerned about. Humans do what humans do. They lie, they cheat, they steal. They get organised so they can lie, cheat & steal better as a group. It would be crazy not to believe that there are certain minority groups who have succeeded in lying to us, cheating us and stealing from us on a major scale.

It would be crazy to believe that our governments never lie to us.

Lets face it ... if Bessler really had a working wheel, or this chappie who had one turning in the Tower of London ... there is no way that some people would not have found out how they work. The economic, political and military significance would not be lost on these people - so the peasants are never going to be given the D.I.Y. plans - much better to let them think the idea was lost. Or that it is 'scientifically impossible'. With so much money at stake, it's probably worth paying people to frequent websites to ensure that the peasants don't get too close to finding the truth. Lead them on wild goose chases, or if all else fails, kill them if they succeed.

Maybe i'm gullible, but i'm not that gullible to believe that world government is fundamentally honest, and that science is a pure search for the truth ...

[John Collins]

The Tower of London wheel was described in his book, 'A Century of Inventions' wriiten in 1655 while he was imprisoned in the Tower, by Edward Somerset, Marquis of Worcestershire. See http://www.history.rochester.edu/steam/dircks/

Go to section one and do a local search for 'perpetual' it is item 56.

The evidence that it worked is very thin.

JC

[ovyyus]

With so much money at stake, it's probably worth paying people to frequent websites to ensure that the peasants don't get too close to finding the truth...

Or perhaps it's the 'peasants' who are secretly organised into sinister control groups, constantly chipping away at logic and reason in an effort to keep everyone distracted and ignorant. I have no trouble believing that every time reason or common sense rears it's head there might be some peasant crony ready to jump into the fray and promote an organised agenda of silliness. There's just too much evidence supporting this conclusion for it not to be real.

But the beast has been defined and high powered hand-held LED flashlights are now trained on it's dark lair by a small band of warriors prepared to sacrifice themselves (and each other) on the alter of truth. The epicenter of the shadowy de-luminati is an ancient and secret organisation that includes some of the worlds most famous and historically influential silly people. It's modern name is none other than 'Monty Python' which, after being correctly deciphered by our great mentor Malvern Starr, means 'Silly Satin', or SS for short.

Join us and help stomp out SS world domination. Justice has a name, we are the Nights who say 'Nih'. Every new member receives a free hand-held LED flashlight of truth (batteries not included).

A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat ;)