Most important clue?!

[AB Hammer]

The most important clue, is always the one not said. The words left out, the direction changed, and more. What I am meaning is. Read between the lines.


path_finder

Aldo Costa wheel in its location would have been better off as a regular wind mil. But it also shows how not to build a wheel due to having to be as big as a fairest wheel to do anything. You don't just want it to barely make it run or you will have to do the same thing which is impractical. If you have a proper wheel you will be able to make one small enough to run on the living room table.

[path_finder]

Dear AB-Hammer,
There are a lot of solutions, depending the principle you are using.
In the case of Aldo Costa, the used principle is the variation of the gravity within the distance to the center of the earth.
With the size he is using (and as explained in his web site) the gain of force between the top and the bottom is 12 milligrams for each 2,5 kilograms individual weight.
This is the reason why:
- the number of active mechanisms must be so numerous
- the size of the wheel is so big
Aldo Costa made an official request for an authorization to build a more bigger wheel (more than 500m diameter).
Unfortunately the neighbors engaged a Court procedure against him in view to stop his project.
May be one day, a big wheel will be installed in the middle of the Golden Gate bridge.

[jim_mich]

The most important clue, is always the one not said. The words left out, the direction changed, and more. What I am meaning is. Read between the lines.

Very good observation!

Did Bessler ever write about centrifugal force? Every wheel that rotates encounters CF. It can hinder the workings of weights, making them move when not wanted and to not move when wanted. Yet as far as I know, Bessler never ever mentioned anything about CF.

[killemaces]

JimMich, the wheel Bessler made was going so slow that cf didnt have an effect on it.
My 2 cents after trying too build a wheel




Rune

[DrWhat]

Bessler's wheels actually spun quite fast considering their size. I have duplicated the speed of his smaller wheels (with a shove!) and as I've mentioned in the past, stick your head against it and any wood jutting out will cause a major injury. But please don't try this at home!

[jim_mich]

Rune, I disagree.

The Gera (1st) wheel rotated at about 60 RPM and was about 4.65 feet in diameter.
If a weight was 10% in from the edge this produces centrifugal force at 2.568 times gravity.

The Draschwitz (2nd) wheel rotated at about 50 RPM and was about 9.3 feet in diameter.
If a weight was 10% in from the edge this produces centrifugal force at 3.566 times gravity.

The Merseburg (3rd) wheel rotated at about 40 RPM and was about 11.15 feet in diameter.
If a weight was 10% in from the edge this produces centrifugal force at 2.736 times gravity.

The Kassel (4th) wheel rotated at about 26 RPM and was about 12 feet in diameter.
If a weight was 10% in from the edge this produces centrifugal force at 1.244 times gravity.

The Kassel (4th) wheel rotated at about 20 RPM when pumping water.
If a weight was 10% in from the edge this produces centrifugal force at 0.736 times gravity.
If the weights swung so that it was moving at twice the wheel speed its CF would be 2.945 times gravity.

If the Draschwitz (2nd) wheel weights swung so that it was moving at twice the wheel speed its CF would be 14.264 times gravity.

[DrWhat]

Impressive description Jim, better than mine LOL!

[killemaces]

From my point of view, not claiming to be a fact, Besslers wheel did not use cf in any ways.
Actually, Jim Mich your eminenent calculations just proves this theory of mine.
I have no math skills whatsoever but i trust yours.
Regarding all the clues i am getting more and more convinced that in Besslers wheel the weights were the prime mover, and the weights moved like the brakepads do on a bicykle wheel, exept that they were attached to the wheel.
Reason for this is simple:
If you have a two pendulums hanging from one point in forexample 30 degree angle with two weights attached to each pendulum there is a force pushing between them.
Then turn the pendulums 180 degrees and there is a force dragging them apart.
Gravity itself resets the pendulums, and you can use the extra force to do work

Rune

[jim_mich]

One of the most important clues is:

When I turned it but gently, it always stood still as soon as I took my hand away. But when I gave it any tolerable degree of velocity, I was always obliged to stop it again by force; for when I let it go it acquired in two or three turns its greatest velocity, after which it revolved at twenty-five or twenty-six times a minute.

Rotating the wheel slowly did not produce an out-of-balance else the wheel would have sped up.

Only when given "a tolerable degree of velocity" did the wheel start turning by itself. This is the best poof that the wheel required velocity to work.

The only force that is produced by rotational velocity is inertial momentum in the form of centrifugal force.

If simply rotating the wheel produced out-of-balance then it would have exhibited the OOB when rotated slowly.

According to Gravesande it did not show an out-of-balance when rotated slowly. But it did show in increase of speed once given "a tolerable degree of velocity".

It is wrong to assume that this increase of speed was from gravity. It is very possible that rotating the wheel caused an inertial force to develop that caused the wheel to speed up.

Of course this was one of Bessler's bi-directional wheels. The same principle could have lifted weights out-of-balance on Bessler's earlier one way wheels.

[AB Hammer]

Jim_Mich

I also consider that it would take a stronger pull or push to set the direction of the bi-directional wheels. That doesn't meant it wasn't gravity either but CF effect could have had a hand in setting direction.

[killemaces]

When i turn my wheel around by hand because i still havent figured out a way too transmit the power from the "Bicykle brakepads" into rotational force they make sound hitting and resetting themselves due to gravity which is a big clue in my theory.
Cause if gravity can produce sound it can also make the wheel go around......
Also im quite sure two clues are imortant:
"there's always the danger that a surreptitious shove would knock it out of balance and bring it grinding to a halt." - pg 297

This indicates too me that the weights moved the way i have described earlier as "Bicykle brakepads" , feel free to give a better name for it

And
"He who wishes to make it in this world must often be prepared to use a combination of lateral thinking and initiative!" - pg 264


Rune

[DrWhat]

Don't forget CF may have only activated secondary mechanisms in the bi-directional wheel to commence the movement of the previously balanced gravity wheel. Like CF freeing up some locking mechanisms that allowed the a unidirectional gravity effect to be "released". A one way bias so to speak.

He did say it took him quite come time to get the mechanism properly adjusted. Maybe the brilliance of Bessler also lay in how he developed this bi-directional mechanism.

[John Collins]

Jim_Mich wrote "Rotating the wheel slowly did not produce an out-of-balance else the wheel would have sped up."

But this applied only to the two way wheels. The one way wheels were in a state of imbalance even when stationary and had be locked in that position to prevent them trying to turn of their own accord.

The two way wheels were balanced when stationary because the permanent imbalance of the one way wheels was duplicated in the two way ones (in the opposite direction) leading to each mirrored mechanism balancing its opposite one.

The one way wheel's imbalance caused it to begin to turn, which would have led to a balanced situation - unless the mechanism moved to restore imbalance.

The two way wheels did not have the ability to be out of balance when stationary, because of the mirrored mechanisms, so the effect could only be generated by manually turning the wheel which then led to the change in attitude of the mechanisms and subsequent creation of imbalance.

So one can assume that the movement of the mechanism in one direction restored imbalance. But in the other direction had no effect on the creation of imbalance. So all you have to do is design a mechanism that unbalances in one direction and is neutral in the other.

JC

[greendoor]

Thanks John - makes perfect sense to me.

[Irish Oracle]

I think this describes what eveyone is trying to do.

"In a true Perpetuum Mobile everything must, necessarily, go round together. There can be nothing involved in it which remains stationary on the axle."

this is the best one.