The handkerchief, the hole and the grease...

[ruggerodk]

Amazing animation path_finder, and good arguments ;-)
Though I believe it will be missing some force to make the weights at '9 do a full collapse...
I can't see where that extra force should come from?
IMO it will be either balanced or only do a half expansion/collapse when at '3 and '9.
And at '12 it will have a full collapse. At '6 a full expansion.
regards
ruggero;-)

[path_finder]

Dear ruggerodk,
Many thanks for the comments.

Hereafter another drawing for a design where the two pairs of weights are travelling on a double vesica pisces frame (the blue and violet half circles). Some will argue that the hole inside the weights and the half circle guide is not a mandatory: on a simple geometrical point of view they are right. But for maintaining these weights in a strictly vertical plane, it's a mechanical good idea (here again the building constraints are more important than the concepts).
I remember about this point the picture I saw somewhere in this forum and/or web site, showing a suggestion of shape for the weights: two cylinders rolling between two plates. In this new drawing the axis of the weights is horizontal and the 'A' (with legs) mechanism is doubled for mechanical reasons (rigidity). There is another way to build this assembly:
- install the cylindrical weights aligned with the rod (the axis of the cylindrical weights being colinear with the axis of the holding rod)
- use only one 'A' mechanism
- let roll the cylindrical weights between two vertical planks, assuming a perfect vertical curved path.
This suggestion can explain the two 'twisted men' in the MT138 drawing.
This method of positioning the weights is perhaps the reason why Bessler won't show the extremity of his weights, and the final role of the handkerchief..
For sure it's just an idea...

This new design is always unbalanced if the two opposite pairs are exchanged every half turn of the wheel. The COG varies from 2P(in the drawing above) to zero (after a 90 grades rotation). But we can put another identical assembly in quadrature.
As said by ruggerodk the question is: how to obtain this reversal effect on the linker?

[AB Hammer]

path_finder

I turned one of your pictures sideways. For you don't show any control of what you are showing for the shifting. So what it looks like to me is that it would do this. I have the same effect with my slide weight wheel without the movers, but I have two opposing each other without the movers. I worked extensively on these approaches, and you will finds allot of problematic problems.

Here is a youtube of my version, that it seem you are working around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz7cZ6Z7e_A

[david jenkins]

AB Hammer
Have you tried reducing the movement of your weights to only 3/4" to 1 1/4"? I have found that in the beginning I tried to move everything way to much, now I restrict movements and get better responses. Just a thought. Have a good day.


Dave

[path_finder]

Dear ABhammer,
Many thanks for you comments, and for sharing your data.
You are absolutely right regarding the keeling position of a single assembly in the idle state.
As explained above, if this structure alone will give no positive result, instead an assembly of two of them in quadrature and correctly linked, can avoid this keeling position. Your assumption is true only if the green linker is absolutely free.
There are several ways to force the both linkers to create a 'reciprocator'.
One of them is (like indicated earlier) to use two hollow linkers where a roller (with a bearing) is shifted inside in a 'hin und zurück' travel.
Another is to use for each linker a cross where the two extra arms are connected to the outer rim with two springs.
A third one is tho use some gears (see an old thread here about the 'virtual fixed point').
You are talking about some hard problems: can you be more precise?
It's only by the building we can go forward.

[ruggerodk]

how to obtain this reversal effect on the linker?

If we make a split-deal I'll give you the solution to that ;-D

regards
ruggero ;-)

[path_finder]

Dear ruggerodk,
Many thanks for your proposal.
But why you don't publish it here on this forum for everybody?
In any case if you keep it for you, I'm pretty sure it will be discovered (and published as 'public domain') in few days/weeks...So why further wait?

[nicbordeaux]

I suspect Ruggero may have a reversal of movement linkage on the back end of his motorbike. or something. reversing movement is not a problem. The losses associated with mechanical reversal of any movement are very problematic.

[AB Hammer]

Nick

LOL You beat me to the answer, it is easy. Also reversing scissor jacks. That was also part of my work. Heck! I could write a book on scissor jacks from what I learned. Heck! maybe I will :) I think I will ask Fletcher to work with me and correct my Blacksmith style English.

Alan

[path_finder]

Dear ABHammer,
I'm pretty sure you will become more rich by selling your book than by patenting any gravitic wheel, even if it really works Your choice of Fletcher is very clever.

Back to the principles:
On the next drawing grease_vp4.png below here is the good (theoretical and like desired) shape for the two pairs of weights at the intermediate position (rotated from 90 grades from the first above drawing).
On this position the green linker is vertical, all weights (this time in yellow for a better view, see later) are equally repartited and therefore the assembly is balanced.

Still theoretical (like agreed with ABHammer) as long any specific force and/or linkage forces the linker to have its center centered on the main wheel center.

The second drawing shows the superposition of the two assemblies (the first one of the grease_vp1.png drawing, and the second 90 grades rotated of the last grease_vp4.png drawing). The mechanism between the two green rigid linkers is not represented at this state.

As you can see the center of each green linker is going back and forward (with a sinusoidal motion) along an horizontal segment centered on the main wheel center.
There is a very simple way to build this: the hypocycloid, like shown previously here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/downl ... a7d1a26b7a
The outer gear shall content two gears (one for each linker) dephased within 90 grades.

[Gregory]

Here is a simulation version of the mechanism.
But not so much action happening...

[path_finder]

Dear gregory,
Unfortunately I don't have WM.
Could you give at the minimum a static screenshot.
Did not you forget the initial 'gentle push'?

[ruggerodk]

In any case if you keep it for you, I'm pretty sure it will be discovered (and published as 'public domain') in few days/weeks...So why further wait?

LOL - or maybe in another 300 years ;-9
No, I've traveled along the 'A' path for a while, and maybe I'm on the wrong track but I'm not going to reveal anything detailed 'prematurely'.

Hell Nic, I don't even have a bike and my vintage Vespa Scooter would be most upset to be associated with a reversal linkage ;-D
regards
ruggero ;-)

[DrWhat]

see image

[path_finder]

Many thanks DrWhat.
In any case the center of the linker must not be fixed, but located on a pivot on the outer rim of a small circle. In this document it seems centered.

Preferabily could you make a simulation of the grease_vp5.png, with the two centers of the green linkers attached at the hypocycloid like explained above.
Many thanks in advance.