Game Plan

[murilo]

Hello All!

Based on previous polls, it appears the vast majority of members here believe a PM machine will be created or replicated in the near future. It would, of course, then be in the best interest of the inventor to have a solid game plan for utilizing their new found discovery. I know this question has been raised a few times in the past, but it was asked as in "what would you, personally, do?" I think we should create a collaborative effort in answering all(or most) of the "what ifs" involved in different scenarios.

Examples:
-If the theory of Big Oil Suppression is true, how can the inventor protect his family or those he holds dear?
-What if the inventor is living paycheck to paycheck, with a big mortgage and children to care for.. and thus he cannot commit any of his own money to promoting the technology?
-What if the inventor is already a millionaire? Should he patent it and build a factory? Is there anything standing in his way?
-What type of plan could be put into place, in case the inventor was ever harmed/"suppressed", to ensure the technology isn't lost?

I think these questions should be answered, because when asked what they would do, most members said they didn't know.

I'm hoping several more scenarios will be questioned, with a good variety of answers to follow.
If a thread indeed has been created for the specific purpose of covering all the bases, please direct me to it.

Thanks.

Glorious, hi!
You look to be worry specifically about your own person!
So, be sure that if you are ''the man'', you'll be absolutely alone!
Best!
Murilo

[Fletcher]

I think there is a simple solution.

The problems perceived with dissemination to the internet community [like this forum] & up-take of the ideas is time related - most are suggesting speed to uncork the genie from the bottle & avert risk.

Many seem to be assuming that once you have a working FE/OU engine [a PMM] you must document it, file it, & simultaneously release the plans & video's etc to the internet, as quickly as you can - this strategy doesn't build history nor credibility with your peers - in fact, it may be detrimental to being taken seriously because of the many hoax's & fakes that litter the internet, not to mention the numerous who jumped the gun in their eagerness to gain fame & glory.

I would suggest that moving more slowly might be a better plan - what I mean is that use the element of doubt & lowered arousal in the minds of those that might 'shut you down' by moving with caution, control & more slowly - why give any surveillance element a red flag & the opportunity to take you seriously & do something immediate about it ?

Here is another game plan.

Build a working FE engine/OU device.

File a patent application for increasing efficiency of a machine & get a receipt for it - do not signal a FE/OU or PPM - this is for commercial control of the idea.

Simultaneously start a progressive thread on this forum, going step by step thru the logic, math & physics - present any physical evidence or experiments to support your theory - be organised, controlled, & set your own pace - take time to answer questions but don't be overly distracted with this - keep the momentum going - do this over a couple of weeks - make no outlandish claims to bring attention to yourself until you want it - build up a solid picture & history of the evolution of the idea - finally, when many are still berating your ideas & evidence, which will undoubtabely still be happening, release the video's of the working device, making the video's clear & transparent - post up plans to the thread you started - take insurance by sending the video's & plans to trusted people on this forum a few days before you intend to do so - trust that they will release the information if you don't by a certain date & time.

.....................................................

Make time your friend & by the time the penny has dropped many here will understand how it works even if they don't yet understand why - that will come later with digestion of the information & viewing of the evidence until it becomes self-evident - anyone who might shut you down will have inertia because you didn't wave a red flag by beating your chest & broadcasting in the usual manner, so any rear guard action will be too late - the seed is planted.

[jim_mich]

Many seem to be assuming that once you have a working FE/OU engine [a PMM] you must document it, file it, & simultaneously release the plans & video's etc to the internet, as quickly as you can - this strategy doesn't build history nor credibility with your peers - in fact, it may be detrimental to being taken seriously because of the many hoax's & fakes that litter the internet, not to mention the numerous who jumped the gun in their eagerness to gain fame & glory.

I see no need to rush. Bessler's wheel principle has been around for close to 300 years, A little more time spent in preparation may prevent problems.

Build a working FE engine/OU device.

This is the very first step.

File a patent application for increasing efficiency of a machine & get a receipt for it - do not signal a FE/OU or PPM - this is for commercial control of the idea.

I thought about using this method, but it has problems. The PTO demands full disclosure. Anything less and you run the risk of not getting a patent and even possibly having an issued patent revoked. Also, a patent is like a sales brochure for your invention. It must clearly, distinctly and truthfully present the invention.

Simultaneously start a progressive thread on this forum, going step by step thru the logic, math & physics - present any physical evidence or experiments to support your theory - be organised, controlled, & set your own pace - take time to answer questions but don't be overly distracted with this - keep the momentum going - do this over a couple of weeks - make no outlandish claims to bring attention to yourself until you want it - build up a solid picture & history of the evolution of the idea -

This sounds real good. But the time between filing a patent and the time when TPTB discover that one's PM machine actually works might be only a week or two. From my experience here on the forum, most will not understand the logic and math unless the whole concept is presented. And the whole concept cannot be presented before filing a patent application. And as soon as the application is filed there will be a very small window of opportunity to present the concept before it could be suppressed. IMO, the full concept and idea must be presented in a very small window of time.

The presentation must be full, complete, clear, and as simple as possible. It must include instructions and drawings of how to build the machine. It must include videos and pictures of the working machine. And it must include the logic behind why the machine works. And the inventor must be willing to show the working wheel live to anyone wanting to see it.

[Fletcher]

Isn't that a catch_22 Jim ?

If you disclose in your PA that it is an OU device/engine [or PPM if you prefer but that possibly invites ridicule] then the efficiency gain is so huge, although the power might not be, that you run the immediate risk of being shut down with a 'cease & desist order' & you're gagged forevermore ?

If you want a quick dissemination then perhaps reverse the order i.e file for Patent - immediately open a thread here showing video's & giving plans - then start systematically filling in the detail - have it all prepared & do it quickly.

This leaves no room for background, discussion or low profile - how successful this strategy would be would be dependent on your standing in this community - if you were thought of as careful, not prone to rash outbursts, logical & under control, & respected, then you would be taken seriously - you could also day one, send a complete file of material to trusted members with instructions to release the whole lot should you cease posting before completion & if certain passwords were not used each post.

Back to the efficiency argument & potential to be seized - what would happen today if someone like Cornelius Drebbel or Cox came along with a weak engine that worked on barometric air pressure like theirs did e.g. Cox's Atmos Clock ?

These are clearly OU or FE with over 100% efficiency, & therefore possibly a threat ? - obviously, once understood, they are seen to be very weak engines & of no commercial threat, after evaluation.

I think they would be described as an environmental PPM [ePMM] ?

Would their PA's be seized & them hushed ?

EDIT :

Was not the purpose of obtaining a receipt for your PA acceptance so that you could disclose all the detail in your own time before it was granted ?

If you were shut down & your PA seized then you are not going to fight that in court anytime soon & win - but you have released the proof & details so there would be no win for the authorities by 'clamping it' as a commercial or national threat & you just possibly retain commercial rights to it - if they didn't allow the PA to proceed then you could go public asking why not, which might prove embarrassing ? - given that the device was in existence & the plans available on the internet.

[jim_mich]

You send the patent application by way of express mail. Since the post office is considered part of the government, this gives you a legal filing date and an express mail serial number. You also send a receipt postcard along with you patent application. The post card should have the name of your patent and a list of all the documents that were transmitted to the PTO. The receiving clerk will stamp the postcard with the date and serial number of your application and place it in the mail. This is proof that the PTO received your application. You will receive the post card back in about two to four weeks. Also you can pay for your patent application using a credit card. This will give you a third proof that you filed a patent, but of course not what was in the application. Check with the credit card company and as soon as the payment to the PTO is posted you are very sure they have received your application. I would expect that your credit card payment would post long before anyone at the patent office has time to realize that you have something that really works. Of course you need to keep a copy of everything you send to the PTO just in the very rare case that they loose your application.

As soon as you mail the application, you can start telling the world about your perpetual motion machine! I doubt that they can move fast enough to silence you.

Link to Filing of correspondence by "Express Mail"

§ 1.10 Filing of correspondence by "Express Mail."

(a)

(1) Any correspondence received by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) that was delivered by the "Express Mail Post Office to Addressee" service of the United States Postal Service (USPS) will be considered filed with the USPTO on the date of deposit with the USPS.

(2) The date of deposit with USPS is shown by the "date in" on the "Express Mail" label or other official USPS notation. If the USPS deposit date cannot be determined, the correspondence will be accorded the USPTO receipt date as the filing date. See § 1.6(a).

(b) Correspondence should be deposited directly with an employee of the USPS to ensure that the person depositing the correspondence receives a legible copy of the "Express Mail" mailing label with the "date-in" clearly marked. Persons dealing indirectly with the employees of the USPS (such as by deposit in an "Express Mail" drop box) do so at the risk of not receiving a copy of the "Express Mail" mailing label with the desired "date-in" clearly marked. The paper(s) or fee(s) that constitute the correspondence should also include the "Express Mail" mailing label number thereon. See paragraphs (c), (d) and (e) of this section.

Link to Patent it Yourself Page 279-280

It may take six months or a year until the application is reviewed by an examiner, who will then most likely rejected it as unworkable. To overcome the objection one needs to show the examiner your working machine. So be prepared to truck your PM machine to to the patent office. Of course by this time, the whole world could know about your PM machine.

[Fletcher]

Ipso facto, you follow your advice of registered post with self addressed, stamped as received post card etc [which is good advice btw] then you are free to deliver the 'facts & background' fast or slow.

Since you have working models & disseminated the proofs & plans then your Patent will be examined & approved - as you say, by then the whole world knows how & why it works, so probably redundant to ask you to produce it, but who knows.

I would probably not submit a Patent Application for an entire wheel for example, but just the method that makes OU/FE possible, covering all the commercial applications bases, intra legem.

As clarification - I said an ePMM would be hugely efficient - that depends on how you look at it - since it doesn't use consumable resources to do mechanical work, it could be considered very efficient.

On the other hand, a solar cell is 20-30% efficient & it doesn't consume resources either in that regard - it is given an efficiency rating because they can measure Output to Solar input Energy.

That might be more difficult to label & quantify for a Drebbel/Cox type ePMM & arrive at an accurate efficiency rating.

Ah well, dreams are free.

[Ed]

The guy in the movie The Water Engine didn't have the best plan. He should have quit while he was ahead and used his engine to make pretzels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLhaol2j9Uk

[rasselas]

Ok, I'm reposting my earlier deleted post (with some addendums):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

* That is, what are some negative potentials of PM?

Jim_Mich stated below (2007) http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... l&start=15 :

"Availability of fuel limits the speed and distance that armies can travel and be maintained. Bessler wheels could provide unlimited energy to wage Star Wars type destructive warfare. The main reason armies don't have science fiction type 'death rays' is due to energy limitations."

And to chime in on Jim_Mich's theme from the above referenced thread/post...... is the world really ready for PM today? Or will it be to our own undoing? What precautions can be taken? - Giving nuclear know-how to the masses is quick/easy/cheap, but does that seem wise to us (as not only can it be used for gain, but for woe also)?

I like Jim_Mich's proposed idea to "circumvent governmental confiscation (or refusal to patent)" via coercing/pressuring the government to consent by publicly disclosing the information in a mass media campaign immediately after FILING (but not receiving) a patent. However, in regards to securing the device... from would-be, malign, influences... then it seems that public disclosure here would not necessarily be any more wise than public dissemination of nuclear blue-prints?? (This I feel is worthy of it's own thread).

Continuing forward - another reason I'm skeptical of disclosing the device publicly after filing for (but not receiving) a patent is that perhaps the government might say: "we've received no patent application, BUT your-name-here did work for the US-Dept of Energy (DOA) Confidential R&D Division... and that's actually GOVERNMENT property that was stolen (but which we had the utmost intention to release for the good of the beloved nation and peoples)... therefore, as they broke the law, we are going to arrest them for sedation against government". Or some such. [Thus now instead of gaining public support, it has somehow turned against you...]

Or along more feasible (but related) lines - it seems plausible that very quickly after the government relents and gives you a patent, they could YET then soon commence court-proceedings against you - accusing you of holding undue monopoly. Then the large part of your company gets divided and placed under the control of government/corporate-minded patsies.

The above suggest SOME possible (unpleasant) outcomes, but are surely not the only negative (or positive) scenarios to consider. Nevertheless, I'm not saying that ANY of those things shall be the case, but rather saying that they ARE important questions that are worthy of our consideration.

Hope this thread isn't going too far off track...

---------------- Addendums ----------------------

As regards a point brought up by Fletcher: Perhaps we could deliberately create a machine with low-efficiency (because of built in frictions or resistance)... that could get us by a portion of Section 181. Likewise we could create it so that it's power output is low? ETC. I suppose problems with this is that it 1) still would fall under some guidelines of Section 181, 2) Section 181 only requires the OPINION of some patent-comittee-member, and 3) this would be perhaps too falsely misleading, and one's patent could be revoked or such.

Speaking of revoking a patent. Yes, you're the one who invented (unless the government or such claims otherwise)... but even if they concede that, and THEN revoke your patent for some reason... is it not fair game for some wealthy, powerful corporate entity (aligned with government interests... or vice-versa) to re-file for? So the government says, "we were nice and WANTED to grant a patent, but it was misleading (etc), so we had to reject it".

A note from Jim_Mich's reference (Patent it Yourself)...

"If for any reason your application is incomplete or deficient, the PTO will not regard it as 'officially' filed but rather as 'deposited'".

Question: does that grant the same rights (as in, "patent pending") of a FILING?

Jim, above you say,

"It may take six months or a year until the application is reviewed by an examiner, who will then most likely rejected it as unworkable."

But elsewhere you mention having only a small window of one to two weeks, care to elaborate? Furthermore, if they see there is media attention... would they not hasten things?

Anyway, the main thrust of this post is to consider: is it wise to disseminate the blue-print at all (as perhaps it's true that such is the only thing that will hush those who provoke/slander/attack/&doubt), or will it perhaps bring more harm than benefit? And is it wise to personally seek a patent? There are other options still yet to consider...

PS - Jim... I wanted to thank you for doing the research and posting some relevant sections of the "Invention Secrecy Act" as regards to patent law.

PPS - I'm surprised at how much thought many of you all have given to this subject... I'm glad that we might improve upon Bessler's fault, and realize that a wheel is only so much... without being able to be effectively made utilizable for the common good of all.

PPPS - another quote from Jim_Mich that I believe is admirable (or at least the intention thereof):

My reason for a patent would be to prevent some big corporation from getting a patent then locking it away for years.

Ahhh... but dear Jim, what if our Princes & principalities lock you away for years?!

[Jim Williams]

As isn't news, the discovery of the scientific principle of that currently unknown form of energy, which could be then tapped by a machine into useful mechanical work, can't be patented. Only the machine that translates that unknown energy into work, poses the threat to the world at large.

I would suggest it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to suppress the scientific principle, if for no other reason, it would pose no threat in itself. It's the machine that's the problem. E=mc² wasn't suppressed, but knowledge of how to build The Bomb is.

That's why I argue for obtaining a patent on a supposed PMM with full disclosure to the patent office. Even nuclear explosives have their own class/subclass at USPTO. It's just that current law prevents any patents on them to be revealed. The patent office is already ready for the day when that law is no longer nessisary, although it may be a time off still. Corporations can also suppress the machine for twenty years if it wishes, but if a supposed PMM gets by secrecy requirements of the government, which it would have to have done so corporations have access to it, the corporation still has only those twenty years. Then by law it would be free to everyone. Upon the granting of a patent, full disclosure of the invention is made to the public for those twenty years regardless. The secret would be out; published in its entirety by USPTO, even if the invention was withheld from the market for awhile.

If the scientific principle is discovered or rediscovered, it will become known. If a machine is built from it, it could only be suppressed for a time. Challenge those whom would suppress such an invention. Obtain a patent and see it published to the world.

[Jim Williams]

edit

[jim_mich]

rasselas, we old timers, in past threads, have discussed the pros and cons of patenting.

In answer to some of your comments...

incomplete or deficient

Means that you failed to include some paperwork in your application. This should never happen if you (or your patent attorney or agent) does the job correctly. Thus the paperwork MUST be correct with the very first filing.

But elsewhere you mention having only a small window of one to two weeks, care to elaborate?

The application will be assigned to an examiner, who will get around to it in about six months or so. But before that, the patent is initially read so as to determine what it pertains to so that it can be assigned to an examiner whose expertise matches the patent. It is at this time that it might be forwarded to those who might want to suppress it.

Furthermore, if they see there is media attention... would they not hasten things?

Once in the media, it does not matter. It is too late, the gene has been released.

Ahhh... but dear Jim, what if our Princes & principalities lock you away for years?!

Then so be it. But they would have no reason to lock me away. Doing so would accomplish nothing. The knowledge would have already been released.

And is it wise to personally seek a patent? There are other options still yet to consider...

This has been discussed before. If a patent is not sought, then only the specific design is in the public domain. All other alternate designs will end up being patented. But, if a good quality, strongly worded patent is obtained then alternate designs would have little or no value since they could not be used without infringing the original first patent.


Ed, I watched 'The Water Engine' for the first time this evening. Thank you!

[Fletcher]

I agree with you Jim_W - the principle is the principle, known or unknown.

The machine that translates that principle to do mechanical work is the revelation & patentable method.

Get it patented & the clock starts ticking to use or lose it.

Another way, to avoid the public eye & patents altogether, is simply find a venture capitalist with deep pockets - they invest, they R & D, they build infra structure, capacity & manufacture - you take your cut from your ideas & designs being commercialized.

As we all know, if the idea is that good, & the translation of that to practical engine so easy, then there are very little barriers to entry other than capacity to produce & capital to do so - first in best dressed, & watch the Chinese go head to head with you a year later, patent or no patent - they'd be happy to grab market share & duke it out in the international courts over 2 decades while they made profit.

[nneba]

Question,

Could you put a patent on a sun dial, a plumb bob, a dam, a windmill, electricity....a wheel?

These things are simple technologys derived from nature, you can not own them.
The wheel will not be retained from spinning around, nor will its secrets be oppressed by burocrocy once discovered.

nneba

[Jim Williams]

I conveniently forgot religious suppression; scientific principles are in much friendlier times. So much so that the machines made from them are considered more of a threat than these ideas from which they come. Times change.

Speaking of times, who derived these technologies from nature other than human beings. We humans own things like sun dials and plumb bobs. We buy them at a hardware store. When we invent something we own that too. A patent doesn't grant ownership to the inventor of his invention, it grants the right to exclude others from making, using or selling it. When an invention is patented, everyone owns it, with the exception of that making, using or selling it for other than the inventor for a time.

Everyone owns the wheel. Its first owner was the person who derived it from nature. Patents are granted to the invention's first owner, the inventor. Not everyone had to invent it again after that, that's all. Humans own things. Even though we do, we're just as much part of nature.

[ovyyus]

Jim_mich, why patent an invention that will certainly be deemed a threat to national security (eg; threat to world economic stability)? It will be confiscated and controlled no matter how many nerds (us) know how it works. Economic stability can be maintained by controlling and suppressing all commercial development. That would obviously mean no pay day for you.

Why waste time and money patenting something that will be legally confiscated and controlled?