MT thoughts ;7)

[Fletcher]

What is your take on the appearance to the A showing up in so many of the later drawings? I am working on using the A shape as a trigger device...

Hi .. I think both forms of A are a visual cue to the Prime Mover. I will talk about it tomorrow. By that I mean both incarnations are merely representations or symbology of something mechanically important.

[Fletcher]

How does anyone know for certain there are geometric code pointers to the mt drawings that add up to the solution? JB only said a discerning mind could find a movement, not a code breaker.

You said he had all the time in the world to comment on, and fix mistakes in the mt’s. But now the codes could have spelling errors?

I disagree the bellow drawings could be noise or chaff. I think they are vital.

No, I did not say JB made spelling errors. That is your inference. I was using a generic example for code writers whom might have repetitive spelling issues that would also appear in their substitution codes. This might throw you out if you didn't make the same spelling errors.

No one knows for certain, its just highly probable that a code leads somewhere, else JB would have nothing to leave as a legacy or something of special interest to get someone with social clout and learning to decipher the code. It's possible they might understand the code but have little mechanical aptitude therefore they'd need to be pointed somewhere.

I'd say a discerning mind would look under as many rocks as he could turn over. But he needn't be a code breaker or have particular mechanical aptitude to find a motion and movement.

[daxwc]

Fletcher:

MT30 shows a transverse section of a wheel. The commentary talks about raising weights with compound levers. Here JB says .. (3 + 0 and 6 x 5)

I like the reasoning on the MT's. So are you going to tie in further your MT number by division of 5 such as in the example? Or was it just an arbitrary inclusion? Such as the 6 x 5 = 30 in the example.

[Fletcher]

Feel free to point out things that come to you dax.

What I was doing was actually highlighting that there are 4 wheels using the z plane (the Zed) starting at 30. These IMO should logically be grouped together because they use an entirely different action than standard 2 dimensional OOB systems. But they are spread out, interspersed between others in this last 25. That put a wee balloon up for me.

That and the use of horizontal SB's and whether I could tie things back to a 3-4-5 triangle in MT41.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Fletcher,
when I were in the place of Bessler, I would do the following. I would present you the prime mover directly to your face. You will not expect that I will doing that, because you are looking for the solution in all MT's.

A clever strategy.

So my view to this is that the prime mover is the T-Pendulum, directly presented to us.

Why is he saying like this: the wheel is also running without the outside T-pendulums ? My opinion: because the T-Pendulum was inside.

What can we achieve with this T-pendulum ? We can shift weights up and also shift weights sidewards. so with this we can break the symetrie inside of the wheel.

The T-pendulum use gravity to to achieve this.
with the T-pendulum you have the 1. oscillator.

As we are working always with 2 Systems, the t-Pendulum is always a part of it.

[ChrisHarper]

Georg

A T-bar pendulum is a greater way to allow the energy system to ' breathe', which is a necessary pre-requisite of any self sustaining system.

It can be used a store to collect and give back cyclically and internally. You're not losing the energy out of the system through the pendulum motion, rather creating the state of Potential ( which ultimately means flow from one higher state to a lower one.

Without that ability to permit a difference, you have no motion.

Chris

[Fletcher]

Georg .. it sounds like a good idea except for a few things.

First, just about everybody has tried pendulums in all sorts of artful configurations and had no luck.

Second, Bessler was adamant (on 3 occasions in AP and DT) that all must go around with the wheel, nothing hangs from the axle etc etc. You can look it up on the wiki page below.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... rtal:Clues

That means there was no artificial horizon or massive hanging stator to work a pendulum off. So we are left with only a configuration where all must turn with the wheel. And pendulums turning with and inside a wheel are just lws so that's not going to change the dynamics into an actual self-sustaining working wheel I'm afraid.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Fletcher,

I had now read that there were a lot of holes inside of the wheel.
Ok, we can do that.

Assume we have inside a wheel a construction which has 8 holes. in this holes you can place some weights. Cylindrical weights.

When you turn the wheel, the cylinders will begin to rotate in the holes.

All will be symetrical so you have no gain of energy.
All of the 8 cylinders will rolling. All weights will be go around.

So we need here to break the symetrie.

What I found now were several possibilityies to break the symetrie.


To point it out, we have here a 2 stage oscillator.

I will prepare a short video with my mobile phone in the evening, so that you better can understand what I see.

[ChrisHarper]

Georg

Your build quality is why I like Mercedes !

Chris

[AB Hammer]

Georg Kunstler

Very nice construction. I look forward to getting back to wheel work shortly. I hate being shown up. LOL

[daxwc]

Fletcher:

The second 47 is just a road marker IMO, a pointer to the 3-4-5 triangle. 3 x 4 (12) + 3 x 5 (15) + 4 x 5 (20) = 47

Hi Fletcher I am going to have to tap-out and ask how the relationship works?

[Fletcher]

Hi dax .. stretches and yawns .. a new day. Takes a slurp of coffee.

The first thing I'd say is that I make the assumption that most have read Oystein's posts and web sites (same with JC). These websites are linked to their profiles.

http://orffyreuscodes.com/ ... http://www.free-energy.co.uk/

Some will have got brain fade and lost interest because a blue print for a complete machine wasn't posted up on this discussion board by Oystein. Other's will have forgotten most of what was said and written in those posts. There's always time to take a refresher. I'm not going to give a blow by blow recount because it is his baby and the codes he allegedly found (which I am 100% convinced exist) are more extensive and prevalent in history than to just JB's works (JB's are variations of older coding styles, sometimes unique styling). These codes were repeatable thru page after page of writing and drawings.

What I can say without hopefully stepping on Oystein's toes is that by unravelling the codes he found geometry. This in turn lead him deeper and deeper into the mire (layers within layers). From which he eventually came out the other side. This lead him to search for the devils number and an associated mechanism. Not a complete wheel blue print but a mechanism. This mechanism was repeated again and again in AP and MT. Sometimes of different proportions but the same mech shape. But the matter at hand and not obvious was how to apply that mech once found, to get a working PM wheel. Oystein and his crew decided on a course of action to continue with the code work first (and future books) and build the mech and test it out in various scenarios to see where its true advantage lay secondly. I think that is still a work in progress and probably on the back burner because the coding work he did is far more important and far reaching than Bessler' PM wheel, most probably. Read .. greater appeal to the masses and of much more historical interest and importance. It also ties into the RC and Masons etc.

Anyways, the code revealed and search for the mech was based on sacred geometry (the universal language). And using MT as an example the geometry was encoded in the drawings if you knew how to approach the problem of unlocking it i.e. find the key of where and how to start. What I can tell you is that if you go looking you have to use the original Bessler woodcut drawings and not the reproductions. That's because tho they are very helpful and clear the lettering is not always in the exact same style, size, or placement, more importantly. Because from using the A's (as an example) as an anchor point the geometry is revealed to someone in tune with the approach required and with the patience to use a square and compass, and use initiative, drawing after drawing etc. Oystein did that.

To cut to the chase in relation to your question. The Pentagram (5) featured, as JC already discerned, in AP wheel and Kassel and Merseburg drawings. And as Oystein discerned the 3-4-5 right angled triangle also featured heavily. And that was a road marker to get on the trail of a particular mech in Oystein's case. For me it was a road marker of sorts to look for 3-4-5 relationships and parables to find not a particular mech (which was perhaps ambiguous IMO) but a drawing with a particular mechanical concept that had a point of difference.

I had already arrived at MT41 15 years ago from my own brand of logic by looking for inconsistencies in MT groupings (or groupings when there should have been), probable substitutions, contextual reshuffling, errors that were never fixed (this book was going to be an educational tool and legacy for Bessler), and commentary that reinforced by repetition such as SB's and Prime Mover .. but I had nothing else (no backup) to point there by way of reinforcement, until Oystein came along.

MT41 had the 3-4-5 relationship in a style consistent with Bessler's geometry coding IMO. I will show that shortly along with how to combine the special horizontal SB action and correct handle-construction with the Prime Mover structure as I see it.

3 x 4 (12) + 3 x 5 (15) + 4 x 5 (20) = 47 N.B. reshuffle anyway you see fit - it just says look visually for 3-4-5 in a drawing IMO.

ETA: Read half way down about 3-4-5

http://orffyreuscodes.com/55

http://orffyreuscodes.com/the-kassel-drawing

[eccentrically1]

How does anyone know for certain there are geometric code pointers to the mt drawings that add up to the solution? JB only said a discerning mind could find a movement, not a code breaker.

You said he had all the time in the world to comment on, and fix mistakes in the mt’s. But now the codes could have spelling errors?

I disagree the bellow drawings could be noise or chaff. I think they are vital.

No, I did not say JB made spelling errors. That is your inference. I was using a generic example for code writers whom might have repetitive spelling issues that would also appear in their substitution codes. This might throw you out if you didn't make the same spelling errors.

No one knows for certain, its just highly probable that a code leads somewhere, else JB would have nothing to leave as a legacy or something of special interest to get someone with social clout and learning to decipher the code. It's possible they might understand the code but have little mechanical aptitude therefore they'd need to be pointed somewhere.

I'd say a discerning mind would look under as many rocks as he could turn over. But he needn't be a code breaker or have particular mechanical aptitude to find a motion and movement.

Sorry, I didn’t make the generic connection. I’d have to agree with that, spelling errors would not help.

I think there might be a coded pathway to JB’s secret, but I’m not sure if it’s the pathway you and oystein or JC are on.

A discerning mind should look under all the rocks; including the bellows rocks that may not be in a code pathway.

If there is a code, it would certainly make it easier if one was a code breaker. A mechanical aptitude may not be a prerequisite either, but again would make it easier.

I guess I’m a bit on the fence. On the one hand, JB left his secret, but only for a select few with the social status and membership in RC or Freemasons? On the other hand, he left it for any one with a discerning mind, nothing else required?

[Fletcher]

dax and Oystein had a crack at MT. I know Oystein found the same mech in AP.

Neither of them were/are paid up members of the RC or Masons etc. Both have a level of mechanical aptitude.

It's not an all or nothing. Just it might be difficult to see and learn, or decide whether there was truth, unless you had multiple ways to attack and analyze the problem and identify a likely solution thru those means. Not impossible tho.

1. discerning mind > find answer

2. mechanical aptitude > find answer

3. knowledge of sacred geometry > knowledge of codes > discerning mind > find answer

4. knowledge of sacred geometry > knowledge of codes > mechanical aptitude > find answer

5. knowledge of sacred geometry > knowledge of codes > discerning mind > mechanical aptitude > find answer

[daxwc]

Just to be clear for those following, I believe there is no 3-4-5 triangles in a pentagram but I believe there is one that one shows up in one of the constructions of one. I will look for it.