Roxaway59 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:20 pm
If we look at Besslers wheel like a recipe for a cake then there are certain ingredients that we know or are pretty sure that we know it must have. I would say that probably the most basic ingredient is an oscillatory function since everything in the universe oscillates. So here is a mechanical oscillator that goes over unity in Algodoo. I cant simulate this properly in wm2d because in my old version it locks up every time. It would be interesting to have feedback from members who are able to put it in a modern wm2d. I have actually built a different version of this that didn’t go over unity but looked like it was going to keep going. The thinking goes a little like this. The double pendulums swing the wheel turns. The wheel turning encourages the pendulums to swing the swinging pendulums encourage the wheel to turn. A positive feedback loop.
Graham
There is need to make a simulation a little bit more real.
So think about putting in some resistance. Air, friction or ohms.
P.S. There is nothing more impressive than a device that accelerates in those conditions.
P.S.S. simulation have a habit of adding energy into a system due to maths rounding error.
Regards
Imo .. the first step is find an overunity device in "perfect" conditions (or by accident) ;7) - perfect means no ordinary system energy losses to frictions etc .. it can't get better than that ..
If it is displaying overunity then a quick and dirty method in WM of approximating ordinary system energy losses (from all sources) is to turn on Air Resistance ..
A device that accelerates is the acid test - if it accelerates with no energy losses to frictions (a load applied) then that is encouraging - if it accelerates with air frictions on, at different levels, then time to move to the front of your seat ..
WM will add energy to the sim when overlap error is too gross - iow's frame to frame 2 objects that were once apart and coming together now overlap beyond program tolerances - the program "spits" them out in the next frame (giving them unnatural velocity and KE), which can mislead the unwary .. the other not often thought about consideration here is model scale (size) and relative velocities of objects about to interact - sometimes the speeds relative to size are quite fast and if the accuracy is too low a major overlap will occur resulting in one object being ejected with force and speed (and energy) ..
Hi Fletcher I will have a go at my wm2d tomorrow and see what I can do. There are about 3 models on there that go over unity to some degree that really need to be checked out properly by people who understand these things better than I do.
Graham wrote:I would say that probably the most basic ingredient is an oscillatory function since everything in the universe oscillates. So here is a mechanical oscillator that goes over unity in Algodoo.
Some time ago I SIM'ed in wm2d something that seemed to be 8 simple machines evenly distributed around a wheel.
The simple machine I suppose I discovered was comparable to a lever or ramp, etc, yet not anything known.
.
This is what happened to their 'collective' CoM. 9 million rpm.
You might be on to something, Graham.
ETA
Georg was the first I know of to 'publish' the idea of mechanical oscillation.
Last edited by WaltzCee on Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What I find interesting about this is the way the oscillators look almost human and as it slows down they look like they are struggling to ride a bike.
Roxaway59 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:01 pm
Hi Fletcher I thought you might find this interesting. The air resistance for this is on but set low.
I don't use Algodoo Graham .. when looking at the sims I have no idea whether you have given anything an initial push then turned that force OFF after a time etc - or whether a motor is turning it etc ..
Makes it hard to have an opinion one way or another without it being explained ..
