Tarsier79 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:50 am
So what is the natural frequency of these particular pendulums, best guess of course?
You mean if gravity controlled the swing ? i have no idea , do one take in to account the wheel couple , from a pendulum driving the wheel standpoint ...
If you mean how many swings per rotation of the main wheel ,if the main wheel drives the pendulum via crank ,which i assume you do , i found 2 swings per rotation of the main wheel as a ratio , dont know how long a swing takes etc etc.
Other than that i am pretty useless with pendulums , i never use them.
Last edited by johannesbender on Sun Jul 07, 2024 12:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
This is the best i could do with geometric symmetry accuracy working from the front pendulum , note they swing by starting and ending more or less at the same heights with extremely small differences.
.
If the pendulums have different frequencies then there will be a difference in the terra reaction.
In other words, there will be a source of energy to drive the wheel.
I therefore believe the pendulums were real.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
If pendulums were used, they most likely would have been mentioned in the German newspapers of the time, covering the public demonstrations. Has anyone looked them up? If there were eyewitness accounts, that would be the place to find them...
"....the mechanism is so simple that even a wheel may be too small to contain it...."
"Sometimes the harder you look the better it hides." - Dilbert's garbageman
I still believe the pendula/pendulums were really designed , whether they were really build or not would be speculation , they remind me of the double pendulums for John Harrison's chronometer invention ,and perhaps as the say - there's nothing new under the sun .
BTW , this visually reminded me of Wagner's machine , but well the fusee design to turn spring tension to a more or less constant force was common knowledge for them , its interesting because people tend to make use of others inventions as there weren't any better at times , and i wonder if what Bessler did (whatever it was) was also something quite unique that would not be able to change a whole lot.
As several others have pointed out, it is known that the pendulums were not "real".
And I did ask myself, then why were they drawn?
To make the drawing of a rather dull covered drum more interesting? Or to point out something else?
A few years ago I found out that MT contains a description of how to (by 3,14) square the circle by Compass (circle) and a square/ruler (Square).
The square weights of the pendulum fits the corner of the square, and the circular weight of the pendulum fits the square. This "formula" is called "Squaring of the circle's circumference".
Merseburg Squaring the circle circumfernce.jpg (17.07 KiB) Viewed 1594 times
After I discovered that, I had to wonder why was the Squaring of the circle by Square and compass an important secondary/secret message to convey? That's another story..
Dante's Paradiso:
As the geometer intently seeks
to square the circle, but he cannot reach,
through thought on thought, the principle he needs,
so I searched that strange sight; I wished to see
the way in which our human effigy
suited the circle and found place in it—
and my own wings were far too weak for that.
But then my mind was struck by light that flashed
and, with this light, received what it had asked.
Here force failed my high fantasy; but my
desire and will were moved already—like
a wheel revolving uniformly—by
The pendulums are real, but they are used in a different way.
They are "Schlagpendel" translated as swing pendulum in english what i think is wrong.
The pendulum has no central fixpoint, the pendulum slips and therefore the center of mass is shifted to one side of the pendulum.
A friend of mine named the form a "Hasenschlegel/Hasenkeule, hare leg" which was a favorite meal of Bessler.
It is the prerequisite of the asymmetric forces on the wheel.
Georg Künstler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 11:22 am
The pendulums are real, but they are used in a different way.
They are "Schlagpendel" translated as swing pendulum in english what i think is wrong.
The pendulum has no central fixpoint, the pendulum slips and therefore the center of mass is shifted to one side of the pendulum.
A friend of mine named the form a "Hasenschlegel/Hasenkeule, hare leg" which was a favorite meal of Bessler.
It is the prerequisite of the asymmetric forces on the wheel.
Aye. I was pondering that once upon a time. Although they are drawn differently, even in the same drawing.
Nice catch anyway. :)
Hi Shadow,
I am only interested in the writing of Bessler, and not in drawings of the machine Tractate.
Because here I see the valuable description.
the words "eins arrangiert das andere", "one is arranging the other"
"es sind da viele Stücke Blei", "there are many pieces of lead"
"sie arbeiten in paaren", "they are acting in pairs"
"es sind immer zwei und zwei", "there are always two and two"
and an very interresting sentence is this one
"fährt das eine ins Zentrum, fährt das andere zur Felge"
here you have the word "Fährt" in my opinion is that a rolling.
One cylindrical weight is rolling to the central axle, the other cylindrical weight is rolling to the rim.
It is an simultaneous action
That is generating the necessary torque to turn the wheel.
The function is like the watch from Praque, where figures are moving in a hole.
"One cylindrical weight is rolling to the central axle, the other cylindrical weight is rolling to the rim."
If the upper beam of the pendulum was hollow, a ballshaped weight could roll inside it, emulating the weight displacement
of a pendulum with movable pivot.
As for my opinion on the pendulums, i found them useful for some counterbalancing work, and to set a different point of rest then
the standard straigth down.
Why counterbalance? They are outside the wheel, and making a counterbalance inside a rotary wheel is challenging. Probaly not impossible, i guess
one could hang something onto the axle. And yes, i tried to make my hydrostatic seesaw rotary. That is why i decided the pendulums could do as some
counterbalancing for the bottomheavy waterballoons.
Did it run? Nope, i didn't really add any weightshifting mechanics. No shortage on energy though, that thing could lift itself...
But having a different point of rest was kinda.. intresting in more ways then one.
Last edited by Kattla on Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
