Design Status Update

[Fletcher]

Here you go Fletcher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NkKb0w ... tu.be&hd=1

Hey, thanks for that ST ..

So the Sys CoM does drop a bit though only a very small amount. That does represent a loss of Sys GPE at the nadir of its travel path. BUT that only holds true for when gravity is turned ON.

As you've said earlier and multiple times it works equally well with gravity OFF and so this insight from you throws the weight force unbalanced oscillator prime mover clear out the door even though the mass distribution about the axle is not entirely evenly spread it appears, else the Sys CoM wouldn't move from the axle position the slightest.

And if this 'works with gravity OFF' is indeed the case as you've said, then metering and knowing the GPE loss (when gravity is present) to compare to the Sys KE is of no forward value me thinks.

So that takes us back to your original description of "Motion from Motion', or as you labeled one of your demonstrator sims "Motion Engine With Load" as the prime mover.

The fact that the various models rapidly accelerate (as per the previous velocity profile shows), and the Sys KE very rapidly builds, is another clue to its inertial operation and root cause.

I just for the life of me don't know how you managed to automate the actions required in your sims from their own inherent motion and actions, so that no further inputs or fake force interventions were required at critical times within the closed loop, to get your sim performances you demonstrate.

I guess that is why you rate your creativity at savant level (not being facetious) because it appears that you by critically thinking thru the problem have found a way to not cheat in sim world and in the process discover a new class of lever to achieve spectacular System KE gains, specific mechanics to close the loop unknown to others.

BTW watching the Sys KE build on the Lever and launched Loads would be something to watch.

Looking forward to your real world build updates and testing of your 'Motion From Motion' Prime Mover Lever etc.

[Silvertiger]

Fletcher: Launch Pad Setup System KE

[k.waenga]

originalbesslerwheel.com

[Silvertiger]

Went to Lowe's today and started planning out my materials. I did buy a length of square tubing with pre-drilled holes to use as the lever.

[ME]

I just for the life of me don't know how you managed to automate the actions required in your sims from their own inherent motion and actions, so that no further inputs or fake force interventions were required at critical times within the closed loop, to get your sim performances you demonstrate.

Within the realm of Sim-World and even manually calculable with known physics formulas, without initial energies (besides GPE), force-vectors, added force-fields, cheats, bug-exploitation, scripts, manual inputs, animation-tricks, other alterations or illusions (besides hiding the mechanism), there are ways to increase the energy level.
I'm pretty sure you know, or are familiar with, such method.

I don't know what ST did exactly, and that shouldn't really matter other than I hope he did something different.
The only thing that does matter is if ST convinced himself enough so he's able to build it for real.
He's buying stuff, so I guess that's the case... Good luck SilverTiger!

[WaltzCee]

Silver, Silver
He's our Tiger
Let's give Silver
A great big hollar!!
High 'O Silver!

The team's counting on you to
bring home the gold, Silver.
If you don't, you're fired.
You know how we are. :)

By the way: I would like to take a moment to thank this rlotie for finacially supporting this place: Thanks rlortie, where else would we be...

I would also. I'd bet it would blow Scott's mind
if more people would consider sending a little
something his way this year. A little Christmas
present. Just a crazy idea.

[Fletcher]

I just for the life of me don't know how you managed to automate the actions required in your sims from their own inherent motion and actions, so that no further inputs or fake force interventions were required at critical times within the closed loop, to get your sim performances you demonstrate.

Within the realm of Sim-World and even manually calculable with known physics formulas, without initial energies (besides GPE), force-vectors, added force-fields, cheats, bug-exploitation, scripts, manual inputs, animation-tricks, other alterations or illusions (besides hiding the mechanism), there are ways to increase the energy level.
I'm pretty sure you know, or are familiar with, such method.

I don't know what ST did exactly, and that shouldn't really matter other than I hope he did something different.
The only thing that does matter is if ST convinced himself enough so he's able to build it for real.
He's buying stuff, so I guess that's the case... Good luck SilverTiger!

Yep ME .. when you go from sim to real world building its generally a good sign of some level of confidence, hopefully not misplaced. The majority of sims don't ever graduate from the screen.

No guarantees that it will work like the sim (for whatever reason it might have worked in the first place, without peer review) but you are guaranteed to learn a lot more about both mediums, and yourself.

In ST's case my impression is that he is definitely convinced that he has discovered new classes of mechanical lever, used in such a way that allow an 'oscillating/pendulum like' System KE (aka momentum in/with a rotating wheel) to build.

Building those should be fun for him and not too expensive to get some sort of validations. He comes across to me as a rational thinking individual, quite sane and capable of analysing things and finding work-arounds etc. I wish him all the best also.

[WaltzCee]

I was looking at the Launch Pad Setup System KE and it reminded me of a Roberval I was looking at some time ago except without sliders. Looks something like this:



The blue and red weights are 30lbs and the blue weight collides with the 2 blue bodies but the blue bodies don't collide. The graph is the blue weight.

[Silvertiger]

I just did a stress test on a model rig using only the most sophisticated of equipment...Legos. I use Technic for models. Because Lego "beams" and "struts" have a certain degree a flexibility, it makes it easy to see the problem areas in a real life wood and steel rig. I saw the motion I wanted to see, but the Legos are waaaaay too flexible to really do anything lol.

[WaltzCee]

Any update, Silver?

[Silvertiger]

Just bought my lumber today. :)

Also, it definitely isn't a Roberval design lol.

[Silvertiger]

Finished my frame design:

[Silvertiger]

Finished my frame today. This is my first build ever lol. :)

[Fletcher]

That ought to do the trick - bet you feel good getting your hands dirty :)

FWIW - some people don't build a complete double sided stand to rest the axle on or in. I always liked the rigidity of it tho, so my wheel didn't get the speed wobbles and lead to premature structural failure ;) Actually I liked it that way coz I could fine tune the balancing of the wheel to a gram or two.

Others just have a circular ply backboard with center axle attached to a wall or stand or something. Then they add to the backboard to test whatever principle they're looking in to.

All The Best

[AB Hammer]

Hi Silvertiger

Interesting stand. I went to all metal stands after my wood ones started to warp due to moister (Humidity) problems where I live. But the wood ones worked well for a few years. I guess I should of sealed them. LOL