Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletch / Shadow
Yes, let me sort it out a little bit. The first drawing,(time 5:26), is better for the toggle link, except at that position, with the blue cross bar all the way down, the link or linkage should be flat / straight across or nearly so. Then after the wheel turns 180 degrees the link should kind of fold, fold down. Also, one toggle link is better I think, a lot clearer, than with the two for animation, at least. Time 10:28 is maybe the best for showing the cross bars. The red link should connect to the blue cross-bar. Also time 10:28 shows that the small blue link is fixed to the wheel and was it green, yes, is connected to the bar.

What else can I suggest? Not sure. The idea is; the toggle gets longer and then shorter as the blue bar moves up and down, in order to move the horizontal bar back and forth.

Ask me, ask me any thing------------------Sam

ETA, Fletcher I think it might help to look at SHADOWS thread p 16. It shows a wheel with 8 toggle links. It might help to under stand how the links work as the wheel turns.

[SHADOW]

Fletcher,
J'ai mis des captures des liaisons dans le second zip joint avec le zip de simulation.
les légendes des captures sont en français.
Il n'y a que des pivots, aucun point fixe.
Le levier rouge est un peu trop long, j'ai du chercher la meilleure position pour le connecter.

Fletcher,
I put snapshots of the links in the second zip attached with the simulation zip.
the captions of the captures are in French.
There are only pivots, no fixed points.
The red lever is a bit too long, I had to look for the best position to connect it.

[Fletcher]

This is what I am seeing Sam .. p.s. this is a basic schematic drawing only i.e. not a sim per se .. taken from Shadow's zip files of detail added to a previous post this morning .. ETA .. merci Shadow, saw those and have incorporated ..

>>>>>

Let's deal with just 1 toggle and connections first ..

....///....

The cross-bars between rollers are separate structures, a horizontal dark green and a vertical dark blue ..

The shifter mechanics is made up of a red toggle bar pivoted in the center and connected to the dark blue vertical cross-bar ..

To the lower end of the red toggle is attached by way of pivots two further cross-members/arms/rods at A ..

The light green arm attaches to the dark green horizontal cross-bar in the position shown at B ..

The light blue arm attaches to the background disk/wheel body with a pivot in the position shown at C ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
The only problem is; the toggle linkage should be flat straight across, NOT raised up as shown. Which means the red link needs to get longer and, pivot at the end of it-----------------Sam

I might add. With the toggle down flat it will cause it to be longer and push the green bar and its rollers to the right. Then of coarse after the wheel turns 180 degrees the opposite happens. One thing I had to do on my wheel, was move the horizontal rollers / drums farther apart.

[Fletcher]

Fletcher,
The only problem is; the toggle linkage should be flat straight across, NOT raised up as shown. Which means the red link needs to get longer and, pivot at the end of it-----------------Sam

I might add. With the toggle down flat it will cause it to be longer and push the green bar and its rollers to the right. Then of coarse after the wheel turns 180 degrees the opposite happens. One thing I had to do on my wheel, was move the horizontal rollers / drums farther apart.

I am not trying to be difficult Sam .. but we are not using the same terminology I think ..

What do you call the "toggle" ? - I meant the red link is the toggle, and pivoted to it are the 2 arms left and right ..

Therefore the red link should be horizontal with the arms pivoting off it as it does currently ..

Do you call the "toggle" the entire mech made up of red link plus 2 arms left and right ?

[Sam Peppiatt]

Oh, Hi Fletcher,

To me the toggle is made up of two links, the light blue and the light green. It's 1/2 of one stage of a storks bill. Anyway, the red link is used to drive the toggle. The reason for the red link is because the blue bar also moves side ways as well as up and down. When the LB & LG links are nearly flat, the red link will be at or near vertical.

So when the red link pushes down on the two light colored links it will move the horizontal bar to the right for clock wise rotation. I hope this helps-----------------Sam

ETA, The toggle is important for two reasons, it changes the down force to side ways, and reverses the direction of the force, after the wheel turns 180 degrees. I turn in. I guess the picture didn't help much--------------

[JUBAT]

You know Sam, if someone sent you a camera to take pictures with and you send it back to them, it would help answer a lot of questions.

Just throwing it out there. A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Fletcher]

Oh, Hi Fletcher,

To me the toggle is made up of two links, the light blue and the light green. It's 1/2 of one stage of a storks bill. Anyway, the red link is used to drive the toggle. The reason for the red link is because the blue bar also moves side ways as well as up and down. When the LB & LG links are nearly flat, the red link will be at or near vertical.

So when the red link pushes down on the two light colored links it will move the horizontal bar to the right for clock wise rotation. I hope this helps-----------------Sam

ETA, The toggle is important for two reasons, it changes the down force to side ways, and reverses the direction of the force, after the wheel turns 180 degrees. I turn in. I guess the picture didn't help much--------------

More like this Sam ?

I made the 2 spreader levers (1/2 a SB) the same length - - and I flattened them out, and lowered the red lever link and made it closer to vertical ..

...............

[Sam Peppiatt]

Yes Fletcher that's better, a lot better. Sorry I left, I conked out. But, maybe to follow up, I would keep the red link longer and the light colored links exactly flat. They would be considered the 'toggle'. It gets it's name from when it just passes it's center position. It tends to kind of snap / toggle from one side to the other. especially if it is pushing very hard against some thing. It is said that the mechanical advantage (MA) of it, can approach infinity.

Then of coarse, when it is flat like that, it pushes the green bar towards the right as far as it can-----------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

JUBAT,
But JUBAT, SHADOW did draw a picture of it! Apparently it didn't mean any thing to any one, right? Why?? Why, didn't it mean any thing. I just don't understand. What good is a picture? Plus, his computer graphic would show up better, if any thing, than a photograph would. Why can't any one figure it out, including your self--------------Sam

ETA, It's all up to Fletcher now; only he can save it-----

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher I'm trying to think what else might be useful.
Perhaps another schematic showing the links after the wheel makes a half turn. Just to verify that the green bar is again drawn to the right, for CW rotation. The link would kind of fold down so to speak,(not flat). But only if you think it would be help full, or necessary------------------Sam

[SHADOW]

Je confirme Sam ,il y a quelque chose d'intéressant à exploiter dans votre idée!!

I confirm Sam, there is something interesting to exploit in your idea!!

[Sam Peppiatt]

Oh, great! I'm not alone after all! Thanks SHADOW, thanks for every thing---------------Sam

[Fletcher]

Yes Fletcher that's better, a lot better. Sorry I left, I conked out.

But, maybe to follow up, I would keep the red link longer and the light colored links exactly flat. They would be considered the 'toggle'. It gets it's name from when it just passes it's center position. It tends to kind of snap / toggle from one side to the other. especially if it is pushing very hard against some thing. It is said that the mechanical advantage (MA) of it, can approach infinity.

Then of coarse, when it is flat like that, it pushes the green bar towards the right as far as it can.

Fletcher I'm trying to think what else might be useful.

Perhaps another schematic showing the links after the wheel makes a half turn. Just to verify that the green bar is again drawn to the right, for CW rotation. The link would kind of fold down so to speak,(not flat). But only if you think it would be help full, or necessary.

We all gotta sleep and take care of other things in a day and night Sam .. I'm only on at night here (your day) because its holiday season, usually first thing in the morning (when you sleep) for me then on to other things and check in if and when I can .. I'm close to official retirement age now and only work half days at best - just 12 hours ;7) -- but the mind never sleeps - especially with this Bessler humdinger of a circling-back maze and rabbit warren of clues and half-truths he deliberately created - he set the trap to throw us off the scent, and distract anyone from thinking clearly and simply enough to find his secret (we have to resist being pulled in) - we are the mice that wander aimlessly to find the cheese which is always just out of reach and booby-trapped lol -- not you Sam, you stick to your guns and mainly paddle your own waka - sometimes into head winds just like the rest of us who try and do both justice (tho probably spreading ourselves very thin) ..

OK .. read your comments - I think with Shadow's help we can pull something together in both sim programs to test your toggling weight-shifting idea to optimize it as best we can .. I will start building a sim from the schematic guideline but this time bearing-in-mind that the vertical roller-weights (the drivers) have to loose some height (PE) and apply their weight-force via the toggle lever to push the horizontal roller-weights to the right, in a CW wheel - this means IINM that the horizontal roller-weights will have to also climb up the walls of the drum encasing (gain PE) - and I anticipate at this stage that the vertical driver assembly will resist that and attempt to also climb up its drum casing to the lhs ..

We'll see how it pans out - may take me a few days to build it and Shadow may get there before me, but I'll start on it today .. then we can all compare and discuss improvements, or workarounds, to get closer to what your minds-eye and your real-world build shows ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Sounds good. I think it will make all the difference, with the parts moving, rather then the way it is now. I hope you can do it Fletcher-----------------------Sam

I think you described the workings of it quite well.