It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit

[Vic Hays]

You must be psychic, well here is another one of my designs at 50/100 let me know if you see anything wrong with it, I see possibilites (ofcourse, how can it be otherwise?)


Turulato

Turalto

People have been trying to acheive pm for centuries before Bessler with shifting weights. Your animated wheel shows very clearly why all of the shifting weight wheels have failed. If you notice carefully you will see that as the weights shift sideways they also go uphill which cancels any benefit from the increased torque from a larger radius.

Particularly note that the weights traveling along the radial spokes must go uphill at the top and also go uphill at the bottom.

[ken_behrendt]

VERY IMPRESSIVE, turulato!!!

From just quickly eyeballing the animation, it does indeed look like it is constantly shifting its center of gravity to the descending side of the wheel during rotation so as to keep the whole thing overbalanced on that side!

I do not know if it would be possible to test your design on WM2D using its pulley tool. It might be possible...but, I am not familiar enough yet with WM2D to do it. However, at a minimum, I think that a computer model of this design should be made and tested. I would be very curious to know just where the c.g. of the weights stays during rotation.

ken

[Wheeler]

Stop it Ken
you know you can test that system in 5 min. with just 3 weights on a wheel.
turulato was not really considering this idea it was just for fun I believe.

[ken_behrendt]

turulato...

Well, I just made a WM2D model for your new design. I found that it could be made with the pulley tool. The blue circles are 5 lb weights and the clear circles are almost massless connectors to attach the ends of two pulley ropes to each other. There are three pulleys in each sector to link the motions of its two weights. The wheel itself is 8 feet in diameter and, without the attached weights, weighs about 10 lbs.

The model looks nice, but, unfortunately, when I went to run the simulation, I discovered that it was running so slowly that after ten minutes the first frame of the simulation had still not yet been calculated! I tried to speed things up by making adjustments on the accuracy of the simulation, but that only made the weights fly off of the wheel!

Apparently, this design is so complex that WM2D can not simulate it in a reasonable amount of time. Then again, maybe I did something wrong...someone here with more WM2D experience might want to take a crack at it.

ken

[Trev]

Turulato! That's an ingenious design, sadly I think Vic is correct but I will have a play with it when I get time.

Trev.

[Oxygon]

I just wanted to add my two cents...

...

The negative effects possible that Vic mentions could be overcome by a stop mech. which would allow switching to occur, Then when the "weight switch" is successful the rotation could continue...

jmo...

I am sure that is not what everyone wants to see... a stop-and-go, stop-and-go, stop-and-go, stop-and-go, stop-and-go, Pmm...

But PMM is PMM... right?

[turulato]

Thanks for the complements guys.

wheeler, I know you don't know this, but since I joined this group I have being posting designs, I have gone so far as to ask if anybody had built or is building something similar. One one of them someone did, so I;m waiting for the results if the guy building it ever bothers to tell us, why duplicate work? My approached now is to show a design and let everybody take it apart, why not, we are after the same purpose are we not? I'm I wrong? If it appears that I was just having fun to you then you are very perceptive, I'm a happy go lucky kind of a guy :-) I hope you don't hold it against me, but as you can see my design is not, is dead serious. If you think you can prove it in 5 minutes, then please proceed and let us know, we are all anxious to see one work.

Ken:
Thanks for the try, it apears that it would have to be built as WM2D can't handle it.

Vic:
I don't really know what you are talking about, take a closer look, it is true that the weights at 11 o'clock & at 5 o'clock climb, what's wrong with it? In what way does it prevent the other 4 setsfrom being out of balance?

Turulato

[turulato]

Oxygon:

Just read your comment, that's great, now you are talking, that is what I want to hear, constructive criticism.

Thanks, that tells me it has possibilities as you saw a problem and found a solution, probably a "peg that moves out of the way"?

Turulato

[Wheeler]

Turulato
You have my total respect for what you are doing, and I appreciate what you said in a thoughtful way.
I too am experimenting and can not hardly sleep, because of having so much fun with it.
It seems as though some are saying to you that the system you posted is a workable pm design, when it is not, and you are asking if it is.

I am on your side and PM is about to be solved.

I know you don't know this, but since I joined this group I have being posting designs, I have gone so far as to ask if anybody had built or is building something similar.

This is true.
So I took 10 min. to draw it in paintbrush.
If you look at the arrows and the red dots, they indicate direction by the arrow, and weight by the red dots.

From what I see all weight will slide down and settle to the bottom of the wheel.
This experiment can be performed quickly on a bicycle wheel.
Use large lead fishing weights and put them on the spokes.
Use a rat tail file to make a sleeve style hole before crimping it around the spoke.
Some fishing weights come with holes in them, so this would make it faster to place them on the wheel.
Your system copies the water wheel. It will continue to rotate, if weight is applied to one side, but you will need an outside force for this to happen.

You are on your way to the design that will work.
Seek and ye shall find.

[Jonathan]

Not to usurp credit from turulato (I didn't come up with it), but I posted essentially the same thing once:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 4762&#4762

[rks1878]

Good night everybody...

Have my wheel configuration all laid out and measured. I can see maybe why JB used at least a six foot diameter wheel to begin with. Mine is a bit too small for how I began, but shortening up things put everything within the racetrack!
Just waiting for some parts to arrive.

[Vic Hays]

I don't really know what you are talking about, take a closer look, it is true that the weights at 11 o'clock & at 5 o'clock climb, what's wrong with it? In what way does it prevent the other 4 setsfrom being out of balance?
Turulato

I may be a bit prejudiced because it seems that many are stuck on the idea that OOB will produce PM. I realized that it is very easy for us to visualize what is happening at 3 and 9 o'clock and extrapolate that into OOB torque. For several hundred years even before JB people have been trying to make that idea work. Why doesn't it work? It doesn't work because at 6 and 12 the weights must climb upward which takes all of the excess energy.

Consider the wheel that you posted and was also posted a couple of years ago. A larger weight falls and pulls another smaller weight uphill. The larger weight must regauge by being pulled uphill by the wheel. Perhaps there may be a very slight energy gain but most likely the forces will cancel.

To make a wheel run on gravity the force of gravity must be collected on one side of the wheel and released on the other. If you can do this with OOB then great. My opinion is that this is a wild goose chase and JB encouraged it with all his drawings of OOB wheels. His wheel used a different principle.

[scott]

My opinion is that this is a wild goose chase

For what it's worth, I entirely agree with Vic here. In fact, here's a post I made on the very same subject about a year and a half ago.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... =1263#1263
-Scott

[ovyyus]

IMO, belief that gravity was Bessler's energy source will prevent the problem being solved.

[graham]

Nice post Scott from a year and a half ago . I couldn't agree with you more

So much time and energy wasted over and over again by so many.

Graham