Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Fletcher]

The only way a wheel can keep rotating is by "breaking" laws of physics.

@Tarsier,

B's secret is simply an idea we haven't had yet, that's all. Yes ..

When Karl says an apprentice can do it easily, he's talking about the object, not the idea. As for the idea, Karl is surprised that no one before B has done it.

Bessler .. XXI (b) Here Wagner lists all mechanical implements.

Wagner seems almost to have run out of fancies. He says nothing can be achieved with "mechanical implements", the gist being that my Mobile must be impossible because I designed it to be driven by some "mechanical power". But did I not, in Part One, devote more than one line to a discussion of the type of "excess impetus" that people should look for in my devices? Once more I will humbly extol the virtues of this passage to my next worthy reader. Even Wagner, wherever he is now, will have heard that one pound can cause the raising of more than one pound. He writes that, to date, no one has ever found a mechanical arrangement sufficient for the required task. He's right! So am I, and does anyone see why? What if I were to teach the proper method of mechanical application? Then people would say: "Now I understand!” AP pg 341/342

B. is saying that Wagner's mechanical knowledge of using mechanical implements is incomplete .. B's. use of implement(s) give a power and excess impetus to a runner - that mechanical arrangement is only known to B. - B. could teach the proper method of mechanical application and we would all understand how that application of implements gives a mechanical power and excess impetus to make a runner ..

Once you know how to make a Rubik's Cube, it's a piece of cake. .. Right, simple once shown, or discovered ..

[Fletcher]

...Well its obvious that although what Bessler did was said to be simple the knocking noise itself gives it away as having a certain amount of over all complexity.

I have often thought that its more likely to be a collection of simple well understood movements thereby giving it an air of simplicity that actually isn’t that simple once you stand back and appreciate the full movement. ...

Agree - if a runner was made of well understood movements from common implements and applications put to work in a novel way then it is not the implements or movements that is special nor not understood, but the way they are combined and synchronized .. looking for things that set him apart from many other mechanics of his time, B. had first hand experience repairing clocks ( and a sunburst light bulb moment ) ..

[Roxaway59]

Hi Fletcher, thanks for taking the time to describe my sim, you did that a lot more accurately than I could have done.

Do you think that some kind of adaptation of an escapement could have been used on Besslers wheel?

Graham

[Fletcher]

Do you think that some kind of adaptation of an escapement could have been used on Besslers wheel?

100 % Graham ..

But imo there is more to it than that - what I am calling the basic Prime Mover ( i.e. the prototype runner external pendulum ) in my thread you will well know by now is an externally mounted swinging pendulum, direct connected to the wheel by the short crank ( as per his engravings ) - this direct connection crank arm communicates the momentum / impulse of the swinging pendulum to the wheel and from the wheel back to the pendulum again, to repeat over and over i.e. zero sum Work Done less minimal dissipative energy losses - this is a type of escapement action designed to control aspects of the runners rpm imo ..

** Escapement - google ..

1. a mechanism in a clock or watch that alternately checks and releases the train by a fixed amount and transmits a periodic impulse from the spring or weight to the balance wheel or pendulum.

Imo a regulating escapement type input is essential because we need a novel way to break free of the chains of Classical Newtonian Mechanics - as has been mentioned elsewhere there are only 2 ways to get a runner - 1. augment the force of gravity on the down-going side of the wheel i.e. speed up the weights with little back-torque penalty for your efforts .. or .. 2. have a discounted cost of lifting said weights on the up-going side to restore system GPE and have a little excess impetus left over so that the wheel accelerates and gains in momentum ( and rpm ) ..

And imo to break the shackles of Classical Mechanics I believe we need to look for an answer in the Work Energy Equivalence Principle ( WEEP ) - where, as my sims showed in that thread, WD does NOT always equal Energy - in some arrangements Energy can be greater than WD ..

Summarized - the Prime Mover aka Escapement device is the key imo to controlling a 'process' of cause and effect, and ultimately finding a mechanical "workaround" to Classical Newtonian Mechanics delivering an "excess impetus" to build and sustain a runners rotation ..

[daxwc]

Fletcher:
1. a mechanism in a clock or watch that alternately checks and releases the train by a fixed amount and transmits a periodic impulse from the spring or weight to the balance wheel or pendulum.

I keep wondering if we aren’t getting this backwards. Where the pendulum is actually giving an impulse to the spring.

Sort of like off a flywheel (stored energy) to the pendulum. Then pendulum to the spring but not in the usual way. The energy gets ratcheted in by a mechanical device. Or you twist the backend of a coil spring with the impulse.

[Roxaway59]

daxwc, its funny you should mention the coiled spring because I keep thinking about weights attached to coil springs that move in and out like with the yo yo effect.

I have no way of simulating it and I have no access to coiled springs at the moment to try real experiments.

Graham

[thx4]

https://youtu.be/0UNX8o6_8Hw?si=NbiqzpdFl2Cyf7HM

I tried this 3 years ago, time flies!
I have the same phenomenon as two pendulums side by side on the same axis.
The pendulum slows down and the disc accelerates and vice versa, the experience is quite messy. For the moment, I've abandoned the idea of a spring.

[Sam Peppiatt]

thx4,
That's nice! It's like its alive an breathing. Breathing hope into a runner-------------------Sam