energy producing experiments

[telecom]

so for a 10 ton weight , lifted up to 2 m we have an energy of
200 000 J, which gives 6.3 m/sec speed at the low point.
The momentum equals 10000 x 6.3 = 63 000.
If this momentum applies to 100 kg missile, we should get its speed equal
630 m/sec with the energy of 19 845 000 J.
Almost 100 x gain?
Is this a correct figure, or I messed things up?

[pequaide]

You have rounded 9.81 newtons / kilogram to 10 to get 200,000 J: I would not round that much and that gives 196,200 joules. And I get 19,618,848 joules for the big one.

So yes you are correct.

The 10 tons dropped 2 meter would be for .6385 seconds. So you are applying a force of 98,100 N (9.81 N * 10,000 kg) for .6385 second. If you apply (F = ma) 98,100 newtons for .6385 second to a 100 kg mass then the velocity would be 626.36 m/sec. And the double check again says you are correct.

[telecom]

In this case the energy of the missile from the trebuchet is equal the energy
of the artillery shell - 40kg moving with the speed of 1 km/sec.
40 x 1000000/2 = 20000000 J

[pequaide]

Correct; and it could lift a 10,000 kilogram mass 2 meters.

[telecom]

But it only takes 200000 Joules to lift 10 tons 2 m - where does the
rest of the energy goes?
Looks like we are loosing 19 000 000 Joules?
The same happens in the ballistic pendulum, doesn't?

I think you meant it will do the rest of the work for 19000000 Joules +
lift the 10 ton weight up to 2 meters to recharge.(sometimes,
if not most of the times, I'm slow in catching!)

[pequaide]

At 626.36 meter per second the 100 kilogram mass will rise 20, 000 meters
( d = ½ v²/a ), 100 is one hundredth of 10,000 so that is equal to 10,000 to 200 meters.

So you can lift the 10,000 kg the 2 meter 100 times; if you let it rise against the force of gravity.

You will only get back what you put in if you slam the objects back together; which is what balancing acts do.

1/2 Velocity² * m alone is a measure of energy because of its ability to rise.

[telecom]

That's what I finally figured out thanks to your research.
If we can throw a liquid, rather than a solid, and then let it fall down like
a waterfall, rotating a dynamo along the way?
Or to pour it inside of the missile holder instead of the missile, and open the holder when its tether extended in such a way, that it is tangentially vertical.
The liquid should go up, and can be caught when falling down in a pipe
to create work???
Or we can leave it as a solid and make it to rotate some kind of ratchets
on the way down????
Or to make it as a steel ball. and make it to pass the solenoids on the way down to generate electricity as a linear electric motor?
Basically, what is the best way to utilize the energy?
But I know, it can't be something like a ballistic pendulum because energy disappears in it!

[pequaide]

In one of the ‘cylinder and spheres’ the sphere mass is 124.5 grams for each sphere; for a total sphere mass of 249.1 grams.  The cylinder has a mass of 874.9 grams for a total mass of 1124 grams for both the cylinder and the spheres. This makes the spheres 22% of the total mass. This is a comparatively high percentage: for example the Dawn Mission sphere mass is about one fourth of one percent. This high percentage of 22% stops the cylinder very quickly. 

The high percentage for the 249.1 grams spheres stops the cylinder and restarts it backwards to achieve its original speed before the spheres reach the 90° point of full extension. The cylinder is now moving in the opposite direction, of the original rotation; but at the same speed.

The cylinder is marked with black electrical tape that comes up over the top edge of the cylinder. The release velocity of the cylinder and spheres is measured as the diameter of the tape moves one full length in three frames of the high speed video camera; that would be one length of movement in 3/240th of a second.  When the spheres are released they quickly stop the cylinder and then proceed to rotate the cylinder in the opposite direction as the spheres proceed to 90°. Later in the video; when the motion has been restored to the cylinder, at about 90°extension, the tape is again moving about one length in 3/240th of a second. 

We know from thousands of experiments that when a small mass gives its motion to a larger mass the motion conserved, or given, is momentum; it is never energy. We can use this knowledge to also know that when the spheres have the cylinder stopped the spheres have to have all the momentum because they restore all of the motion back to the cylinder.
  
If the spheres conserved energy when they have all the motion the quantity of motion would be only 47% of the momentum needed to restore all of the momentum back to the cylinder.  For momentum (mv) to be conserved when the spheres have all the motion then their faster movement must be in proportion to the difference in mass between the total mass and the spheres mass; 1124g / 249.1g is 4.51. The spheres must be moving 4.51 times faster than the original arch velocity to conserve momentum.  To conserve energy (½ * 1124 g * 1 * 1) the 249 grams must be moving 2.13 (1/2 248 g * 2.13 *2.13) times faster than the original arch velocity.

If the motion of the spheres is only 2.13 times faster, when the cylinder is stopped, then 53% (2.13/4.51) of the momentum is lost; and only momentum can be transferred back to the cylinder. It would take 6 frames (at 240th second divisions) to move one length of the tape; not three.  It takes three frames.

Conclusion: It is momentum that is conserved when the spheres have all the motion. And the energy increase is somewhere around 400%.

[pequaide]

Very close observation at 240th of a second intervals shows that the cylinder has an almost complete restoration of motion. Small mass giving its motion to a large mass can only conserve mv; therefore large mass to small mass must also be mv conservation. Because there is no lose of motion.

This is a 3 inch diameter PVC pipe with a bolas through a diameter. The spinning pipe throws out the tethered masses and the pipe is stopped. The masses stay attached

This works.

[Gill Simo]

Seven years, 113 pages, 1600+ contributions......anyone experimented & produced a single joule of energy yet?

Mind you...twelve years, half a million pages & 135,000+ contributions as a whole hasn't, has it?... so no surprise here.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Gill,

Your posts have gone over to the negative, I hope everything is OK.

[pequaide]

The actual motion of the cylinder and spheres at release is 6 mm in 1/240th of a second. After the cylinder is stopped and restarted, and the tethered spheres are at 90° to tangent, the actual measurement of the cylinder and spheres is again 6 mm per 1/240th of a second.

This phenomenon is momentum conservation; as the gentleman buried at Westminster Abby would have predicted. Nothing unusual right? Until you look deeper.

The experiment begins with 1.124 kilograms moving 1.44 m/sec, it ends with 1.124 kilograms moving 1.44 m/sec. This is 1.1653 joules on both ends of the experiment. But what about the middle of the experiment? I know that there will be some loss; but 6 mm is what is measured.

In the middle of the experiment 874.9 grams has lost all motion. It has zero rotational motion; for a net loss of (.8749 kg * 1.44 m/sec) 1.26 units of momentum. But we know that this 1.26 units of momentum did not disappear because it comes back at the end of the experiment. The tether is non-stretching fluorocarbon line; so where did the momentum go? Obviously the momentum was added to the previously existing momentum of the spheres. And then at the end of the experiment it was returned to the cylinder.

The previously existing momentum of the spheres at the beginning of the experiment was (.2491 kg * 1.44 m/sec) .3587 units of momentum. When you ad this momentum to the momentum lost by the cylinder you have 1.61856 units of momentum held by the two spheres. For .2491 kilograms of mass to have 1.61856 units of momentum it would have to have a velocity of (1.62 /.2491 kg = 6.4976 m/sec) 6.49 m/sec.

When the two spheres have the cylinder stopped their velocity is about 6.49 m/sec.

.2491 kilograms times 6.49 m/sec velocity is (1/2 * .2491 kg * 6.49 m/sec * 6.49 m/sec) 5.24 joules.

The middle energy minus the starting energy is; 5.24 joules – 1.16 joules is 4.086 joules of energy.

The experiment produces 4.08 joules of energy; because you can release the tethers any time you choose. I have dozens of experiments that make energy.

[pequaide]

Wow; this is so cool, it is heart thumping. I am having so much fun with this Sony high speed camcorder.

I am recording the 10 7/8 inch (height) heavy gray PVC pipe with the heavy bolas.

The pipe has a small hole through a diameter in which the bolas is seated. The bolas has a length of one diameter and one circumference. That would be 3.5 inches plus (3.5 * pi) 14.5 inches. The bolas is wrapped around the cylinder; it is then spun and released. The momentum of the cylinder throws the sphere masses on the tethers out away from the cylinder. The tethers are weighted with copper spheres 124.5 g each.

The camera allows you to watch frame by frame at 1/240th of a second.

Twenty frames after release the bolas has the cylinder rotation stopped; as the bolas spheres flare out from the cylinder. The string through the cylinder and the extended tethers are at about 45°.

Twenty one frames later (frames 41, 42) the bolas has restored the original rotational motion to the cylinder as previously discussed. At this point the bolas is straight; the portion of the bolas string that is in the cylinder is in line with the extended tethers that are 90° to tangent. Within these two frames the bolas forms a straight line.

Twenty one frames later (frame 62) The bolas has again stopped the rotation of the cylinder. The string through the cylinder and the extended tethers are at about 45°.

Twenty frames later (Frame 82) the original motion of the cylinder and spheres has been restored. This time the spheres are back up against the cylinder; and they are gently bumping up against its side. They do this bumping for several frames until the spinning cylinder strikes the floor.

What happens between frame 1 and frame 41; is identical to what happened between frame 41 and 82. But in the opposite direction.

From ballistic pendulum experiments; only momentum can be at work between 41 and 82.

Conclusion: only Newtonian momentum can be at work between 1 and 41: and there is a very large increase in energy.

[pequaide]

pic

[pequaide]

The frame just posted is about frame 32 of the previously discussed 82 frames. The frame is between a rotational stop of the cylinder at frame 20; and a full speed rotation of the cylinder at frame 41 or 42. You see some blur of both the cylinder and spheres because they are both moving.

The angle between the tether string and the string through the diameter can be seen in this frame. What is that about 130° or 125° ? One of the high energy points of the system has already been passed at 45°.

This frame is of no particular interest but it does show you the falling cylinder the sphere weighted bolas and the black tape used for evaluating speed.

Only momentum can return the motion in this way, so the energy increases dramatically when the spheres have all the motion.