The war of the ego about an unrealizable illusion

[cloud camper]

Fantastic news Claudio!

But please realize you are the 359th member since the beginning of the forum to claim "Bessler's secret". (I keep track).

And there are dozens before you to claim "working wheels" madly churning away in their basements.

Frank Driver claims "Bessler's secret" and is patenting his "working wheel". Old Nick has a "working wheel". Jim Mich claimed "working wheels" for years. Mooie Energie claims "working wheels".
http://www.mooieenergie.nl/en/

So how do you plan to distinguish yourself from hundreds of others that have also discovered "Bessler's Secret"??

[unstable]

Daxwc, I think I'm showing a lot more for those who do not have blinders !
:D

Cloud camper, I think you are a builder and therefore you understand mechanics. To me drawing and simulation speek clear. Unlike the others I am showing what I have discovered and that is the working principle of the Bessler wheel. Or maybe you (plural) were expecting a beautiful woman to turn the wheel from the inside ? :-)))
What I claim is a concept, not a working wheel ! (For now, LOL)

[ME]

Or maybe you all were expecting a beautiful woman to turn the wheel from the inside

Many wars were fought over woman, by men with egos. Either sadly considered a priced commodity or otherwise puppeted around...

They gain force from their own swinging...
Obviously, and perfectly in line with expectation.

I never thought Medusa was part of that:

• At a first glance there are ten weights with mass M dropping with leverage fraction 2:6.
  Mathematically they are able to lift up to 10·M·(2/6), That's about 3.3 M before reaching balance.
  But don't forget the mass of those support bars.

Good luck, Claudio

[eccentrically1]

You are mistaken eccentrically1 it is taken out of context you need the whole quote:

"These come in pairs, such that, as one of them takes up
an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle.
Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing
places all the time. (This principle is in fact the one that Wagner
said he owed to me - but I was quite wrongly implicated, as I'd
never informed anyone about the matter.)"

Yes, the wiki clue page does mislead there, unfortunately.

But, the rest of my post is needed for context as well:

If the weights were only balancing each other's mass relative to their motion,(in other words, they were merely "along for the ride", and not overbalancing the motion of the wheel structure, because no matter their relative positions they balanced each other) then we are left with an unbalanced static wheel but a balanced flywheel, once in motion.

If we are left with a flywheel of ? mass, how much force would it take to nudge it along once it reached its top speed?

[Silvertiger]

I have had that same thought for several years ecc1: that it could be unbalanced while static but balanced when in motion. It is easy to imagine; quite difficult and so far impossible to visualize. All OOB wheels will seek balance through motion until that equilibrium is achieved. And therein lies the problem to be solved; for once equilibrium is achieved, the motion stops. My thoughts on this problem have always been to find a way to oscillate RKE with another force; to be able to use gravity on the descending side and another force on the ascending side, and oscillate the two in a seemingly impossible manner such that one feeds the other. It is actually very simple to raise 4 pounds four quarters while one pound falls one quarter. The problem is the exact same as with gravity...but in reverse. Now the wheel will top out instead of bottom out lol. ;P

[unstable]

Marchello, it's clearly his (Bessler) secret. Leave the math apart and think...
Or best... try simulate on WM2D what you have seen.

Il suo segreto non può essere che quello che ho mostrato. Sono sicuro a livello intuitivo... ed è difficile che mi sbagli. Scusate per l'italiano ma sono in giro e non riesco a scrivere in inglese in modo comprensibile.

Aggiungo questo: secondo me il punto chiave è la conversione tra moto ad arco e moto rettilineo. Pensateci bene e provate a simulare.

[raj]

I am following this thread with the greatest interest.

Please keep it up.

Raj

[unstable]

Thanks Raj.

The blows heard maybe was due to end-of-run collisions or a method to emphasize the impetus of the movement or to reset it when rotated 180 degrees. Do not think this system in a static way... but DYNAMIC. It similar to a roberval and tend to oscillate.

Regard the phrase of Bessler "weights gain force... etc". Force to do what ? Maybe Bessler was referring to height... force in a sense of motive power therefore height.

[cloud camper]

Claudio - there is a function in WM2D that displays the system COM while your mechanism is operating and will show whether the COM is rising or lowering.

I would experiment with that before you get too excited!

Good luck!

[unstable]

Cloud camper thanks, I always use the function: visualizza ---> baricentro del sistema. In English, I think: visualize ---> Center Of Mass.
"I would experiment with that before you get too excited!".. as Bessler write: "you get the evidence before of you" or something like this, I don't remember correctly. Cloud camper you are right but this is very very very evident. Many pieces of the puzzle match.

To all: I attach the simulation for those who still did not understand that this is undoubtedly the system used by Bessler (sorry for the tone a bit 'arrogant but I seem to be discussing with people not able to evaluate independently).

Marchello, thanks... but medusa ?? LOL ... as Bessler had said to some learned/wise man: "you can throw your formulas out of the window" :-)))))))) Obviously I joke !! but in this case WM2D can not go wrong and I do not even believe what I interpret is wrong.
It is probably the only system (or one of the few) able to elevate the COM thanks to the downwards movement (arc path) of some weights of the system itself. Incredible but TRUE !
... ehhh, what "feedback" can do is almost magic, also in mechanics.

In this version I put the weights at each stage of the lifter. This is even better and the behavior is more homogeneous. The use of a spring, even of weak force (5 newton / meter or less) makes the COM rise further but I would not like the spring to hinder the reset when the mechanism is turned upside down. It's all to try.

I am 100% convinced that Bessler's secret has been understood.

I would add that Bessler had found a way to freeze the peak ... using a latch system. It is probably a simple system that, after latching the movement, it releases the retention when the force exceeds a certain entity. I have to think about how to do it in a simple way ... if anyone has any ideas, it would be nice to exchange (mechanically and not for WM2D).

I forgot to mention that currently the mechanism can not be turned upside down. Needless to the current state try to spin the wheel. I am working to finish it.

[cloud camper]

OK Claudio - so you're saying you can't be bothered to use the WM2D function that was designed to show the exact location of the system COM but instead choose a program called "visualizza" that no one has ever heard of and expect to have credible results?

Sounds a little sketchy Claudio.

[Silvertiger]

I am 100% convinced that Bessler's secret has been understood.

Okey dokey. Does this mean the war is over..??

[unstable]

Cloud camper, no, you did not understand (or I did not express myself well). I always use the WM2D function you indicated. The COM is visible as a little dot with white and black sectors. This little circle rises up a little. I do not use other programs, only WM2D.

Silvertiger, for the moment I have not yet done a simulation of that mechanism while spinning in a wheel. But the test done with the wheel stopped, already provides a very clear result. Without any spring, the COM goes up. It's what we all were trying to do. Furthermore, many clues are perfectly found in that drawing. I'm sure that it is the Bessler's mechanism.

[unstable]

In the mechanism I showed there is the condensation of the clues present in the Bessler's toys page.
The ruler and compass (not in the toys page image) referred to that type of connection. Both in the sense of arc and straight line and as they were designed ... they form a rhomboid.

"Weights act in pairs", yes (many pairs). The shape of the weights: cylindrical with a hole in the center. Another "clue" that matches.
When the wheel was spinning it emitted a "scratching noise" ... I suppose it was the noise of the weights that rolled or ran on a wooden support. And so on...

But its mechanism is not as simple to construct as had been said by the landgrave.

Since my "Bessler's lifter" design is very similar to a pine, during Christmas it is also possible to decorate it with Christmas lights and baubles. This feature is exceptional and makes it unique. :-))))

[eccentrically1]

I have had that same thought for several years ecc1: that it could be unbalanced while static but balanced when in motion. It is easy to imagine; quite difficult and so far impossible to visualize. All OOB wheels will seek balance through motion until that equilibrium is achieved. And therein lies the problem to be solved; for once equilibrium is achieved, the motion stops. My thoughts on this problem have always been to find a way to oscillate RKE with another force; to be able to use gravity on the descending side and another force on the ascending side, and oscillate the two in a seemingly impossible manner such that one feeds the other. It is actually very simple to raise 4 pounds four quarters while one pound falls one quarter. The problem is the exact same as with gravity...but in reverse. Now the wheel will top out instead of bottom out lol. ;P

It’s the only thing that makes sense to me when I weigh all the evidence. Why the wheels all had a specific rpm, performed specific amounts of work.
Although the weights’ mass could have balanced each other when in motion, and been left left in a gravity unbalanced state when not in motion to provide the startup, they could still be performing some sort of internal task while in that “balanced motion state� that set up the conditions for the wheel to store energy ( and slowly release it internally similar to a weight driven clock) from its environment. It could have been just a heat driven system or just pressure driven or some combination. I’m still visualizing.