The Bessler Curse

[ken_behrendt]

Jonathan...

I was able to show in another thread that the rest mass of an object that drops in a gravity field does decrease and that the energy associated with that rest mass shows up as an increase in the kinetic energy of the object. Well, if relativistic mass is determined by the kinetic energy of an object, then it would seem that as an object loses rest mass, it must gain relativistic mass if that kinetic energy is not removed from the object. However, I assumed that the sum of the two is a constant, but only as long as no outside energy is added to the object. Thus, I assume that as the object loses rest mass as it accelerates in a gravity field, then it must gain the same amount of relativistic mass. I think the equation you presented shows the relationship between rest mass and relativistic mass when extra energy is supplied to the object from outside of itself to accelerate it.

I will agree that relativistic mass will affect the inertial properties of an object. That is probably why, as an object is accelerated toward the velocity of light, more and more energy must be supplied to it to increase its velocity due to its increasing (toward infinity!) relativistic mass. I also think you are right about that relativistic mass having gravitational properties. I think I read about how Einstein's relativity was used to rationalize the perturbations noted in the orbit of the planet Mercury. Apparently, its orbit is very eccentric and, upon its closest approach to the Sun, it experiences enough of an increase in relativistic mass to cause an appreciable increase in the gravitational attraction between the planet and the Sun that causes the planet's orbit to perturbate (?)...

ken

[Jonathan]

Ken, I think you are refering to this, but I don't think your source for that knows what he's talking about. The math you show there predicts how much mass the object would need to convert to energy to equal the amount of energy gained. It doesn't prove that that much mass actually is lost, and in fact, the equations used to calculate the energy gained assume that the mass is perfectly constant.

[AgingYoung]

Young's First Principle of antigravity:

Gravity has to cause an increase in acceleration for a constant mass to attain sufficient Force for that same mass to overcome the force of gravity.

From this principle I postulate that:

A mechanism that will work can't be in need of acceleration. The mechanism has to cause the acceleration.

A. Gene Young

ps: I believe I'm in the process of modifying Newton's 3rd law of motion in a similar manner that The Law of Conservation of Energy was modified after the manhattan project turned matter into energy or like Galilio's idea that different masses fell at the same rate. That idea was qualified with 'in a vacuum'. If anyone has heard of anyone that has distilled the ideas of perpetual motion and antigravity to the extent I have would you please make me aware of these ideas? Thank you.

[AgingYoung]

I just did a calculation on the bessler type wheel that I'm building. It's an exact measurement and I'm hoping to build the wheel as accurately as I can yet they never are as precise as you'd like.

For a cause of 0.2382 foot/grains I caclulate the effect of the acceleration to be 2.001415 foot/grains or an amplification of 176.32%. There are 7000 grains in a pound. That cause/effect will occur 8 times a revolution.

The small scale of the wheel necessitates the use of small plastic parts that need to be fabricated. Plastics have light weight and strength. I have the wheel in its entirety visualized. It's time to build.

A. Gene Young

ps edit:

The wheel will be built on a standard cd. The diameter is 4.75 inches. The axle has a diameter of 0.023 inches; a common straight pin. The wheel will have 4 weights being marbles with a diameter of 0.635 inches and a weight I approximate at roughly 82 grains.

The theory behind the mechanism is that a slight force will accelerate a pair of weights to become out of balanced. That out of balanced state will presist and cause a 2nd pair of weights to cycle into an out of balanced state (further adding torque) while the first pair accelerates back into a balanced condition.

In a wheel this size given the frictions present and driven by the weights I propose a very slight force is sufficient to cause the mass to accelerate to provide adequate torque to perpetuate its motion.

[jim_mich]

Just for reference... 0.2382 foot/grains is equal to having a 1.00 x 0.735 inch (4 x 4.742 cm) piece of standard 20 lb. paper as a weight at a distance of one foot (30.48 cm). That's a very light weight wheel!

[ken_behrendt]

Gene...

Your wheel is only 4.75 inches in diameter! Egads, that's about the size of an alarm clock! The advantage of such tiny constructions is that they are easy to move about and can be quickly constructed. However, on the other hand, they must be somewhat precise (like a clock) and careful attention must be paid to minimizing friction.

It sounds like a one directional design requiring a push to get it started. Bessler's wheel's were self starting so I would have to immediately question if you could have the design he used. Of course, we all here seem to assume that Bessler's wheels were self starting from any position. Maybe that was not the case? But, then again, if there was some state of balance for the one directional wheels, then why did he bother tying them down?

In an event, good luck with your mini-wheel...


ken

[AgingYoung]

Ken,

Yes, the wheel is on a standard cd. If I were to build it larger giving myself more room I could change the characteristics of it. I think it could be bidirectional needing a shove or it could be one directional and a self starter.

No one is going to discover the precise mechanism that Bessler used. Even if they did how would they know? :)

I spent all last night making the molds for one of the plastic parts of the mechanism. While I was working on one part of it I was thinking ahead about the next step. Mold making is like a puzzle.

I've also come to a conclusion about how I'm going to solve the Bessler Curse. When I let you know I have some affidavits you'll be safe to jump to a conclusion.

A. Gene Young

ps edit: thank you for your kind words. If the epifany I've been given proves correct I might have to buy Scott a new server.

[AgingYoung]

I've spent all last night making the molds for the plastic parts for a part of the mechanism. Tonight I formed those parts. I need to consider what material I plan on using for the rest of the mechanism. Not counting the assembling process I'm two thirds thru it.

Initially I had planned on an axle of straight pins yet I've changed that to a paper clip. When I finish with this prototype I might have $20 in it. cd's are very useful when you can precisely place an axis thru their middles. They're like an instrument. Some can look at a wheel with the weights situated in some manner and tell you which way it will turn and how far. I do ok with that. A good method to use is to print out the arrangement of weights where the circle is about the size of a cd then cut it out and tape it to the cd. Then hot melt glue small weights to the paper and see where it stops. It's a scale.

Ken,

I've tested a static mechanism on this cd and it behaves very closely to the graph of torques I generated. I just finished adding a 2nd static mechanism to the cd. I'm pretty sure it is permanently out of balanced. It starts on its own. If stopped it will take a couple of turns to get to its top speed; no more than 3 turns.

A. Gene Young

[ken_behrendt]

Gene, you say:

I'm pretty sure it is permanently out of balanced. It starts on its own. If stopped it will take a couple of turns to get to its top speed; no more than 3 turns.

I'm a little unclear on this...are you saying that your mini-wheel is now continuously turning?


ken

[AgingYoung]

Ken,

That was a static test. I have to adjust the mechanism as opposed to it moving on its own. What I'm saying is that considering where the weights would be as the wheel turns it seems like it doesn't have a point of rest any where. The 2nd mechanism is activated near the end of the travel of the first. When the 2nd mechanism is near the end of its travel the first one is actuated again. Each mechanism operates twice over 360 degrees. As always it remains to be seen.

I'm in the process of sanding the parts I made last night to give them all equal weight. My mold making process was a little sloppy. Slow tedious work.

A. Gene Young

[Wheeler]

Gene
Why are you molding your parts?
Why not use off the shelf parts?
Are you making shaped parts that are not available on the market?
Or are you just enjoying the use of your skills?

[AgingYoung]

Wheeler,

They're shaped parts that as far as I know aren't available. Molding parts is interesting though.

A. Gene Young

[Wheeler]

I understand.
Sounds fun.
Without interfering with your work,
Can you recommend a web page that covers the topic?
I think I would enjoy casting with low temp materials too.

[ken_behrendt]

Wheeler...

I have a friend who makes refrigerator magnets. Well, she does not make the magnet part, just the little decorative piece that the magnet is glued to. She uses this colored putty that she gets at craft stores. One cuts off a piece of the putty, shapes it, and then bakes it in an oven to drive off the plasticizers in it. Depending on how long it is baked, the finished part can be either soft and flexible or rock hard. One can stick two or more pieces of the putty together to form things like flowers, etc. and, when they are baked, they stick together permanently.

The material she uses is rated as non-toxic and safe for kids to use. It seems ideal for making small parts.


ken

[AgingYoung]

Wheeler,

I'm casting with an epoxy putty (plumber's putty) using olive oil as a release. It's a cold molding process. The molds I'm making are from plaster paris. It's not the best operation. I think it will serve the purpose though. I've mostly learned by experimenting. When I slow up a little I plan on posting some pics. I don't know of any sites that cover molding but I'm sure there are quite a few. I'd like to be able to make aluminium molds so I could apply more pressure on them for the cast. I could get a higher degree of accuracy with that. Maybe one day. I know how to make a small furnace to melt aluminium with propane.

A. Gene Young