Well, I certainly can not accept that the Earth is only about 4,000 years old. That is preposterous. I think I read somewhere that the Sphinx in Egypt is almost 10,000 years old and that the Egyptian culture around the Nile river started about then.
I think that there is a middle ground that could be acceptable to both creationists and evolutionists. Just assume that God did create everything, but He used cosmic and biological evolution to do it. Once that debate is out of the way, we can get down to trying to figure out who or what this God is.
Right now, I am leaning away from the idea that God is a some sort of being, whether physical or "spiritual". I am envisioning God as a "principle" that pervades the cosmos. This principle encompasses all of the laws of physics and chemistry and maintains the balance of the cosmos. One of the many ways it displays itself is via the concept of Karma. That is, when one does evil, eventually one will have to pay for it with interest due. And, when one does good, then eventually one will be rewarded for it with interest due.
The problem is that there are currently on Earth many different interpretations of what make something "evil" or "good". I think the Bible can begin to help us organize our thoughts about the nature of good and evil. But, I see it only as a guide and a beginning one at that.
ken
Beliefs in God
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ken_behrendt
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re: Beliefs in God
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
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digitaljez
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re: Beliefs in God
Apparently there are 25 known isotopes of polonium. Polonium 209 has a half life of 103 years. Polonium-210 has a half-life of 138.39 days, polonium 214 has a 'fleeting existence' but very late on in the decay so not primordial. In fact due to uranium's huge half life there may have been no such thing as primordial polonium. They dont seem to specify which isotope - non of their links seem to be working.If you want to check out http://www.halos.com/ you will find that the granites of the earth were created and hardened nearly instantaneously. This of course is impossible without divine intervention. polonium has a half life of about two minutes. Within these polonium halos there is no trace of the uranium that the Polonium should have decayed from. Very interesting site.
I don't see how this shows instant creation, just rapid cooling. If this happened before the atmosphere was formed it would have been extremely cold on the surface. Any molten rock erupting out on to the surface would have cooled more rapidly than most polonium would decay.
By the time uranium has decayed to polonium it has existed as intermediate substances for 83,000 years so it doesn't seem odd to me that there is no trace of it.
Bunch of nutters if you ask me.
re: Beliefs in God
Genesis 1,1 is often dated as 4004 BC which puts age of earth at about 6009 years old?
Here are some interesting links on age of earth.
www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp
Here are some interesting links on age of earth.
www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp
re: Beliefs in God
Patrick,
Just who are your Christian Brothers in Christ?
Do you not remember what Jesus told his disciples of the Last Supper.
When the disciples asked him, when were you in prison, when were you naked and when were you hungry.
He answered them by saying quote;
"when you did it to the least among me, you did it to me."
Patrick where does this fit in with who you consider to be your Christian brother ????
one should be quite careful in how you judge, who is your Christian brother.
Just who are your Christian Brothers in Christ?
Do you not remember what Jesus told his disciples of the Last Supper.
When the disciples asked him, when were you in prison, when were you naked and when were you hungry.
He answered them by saying quote;
"when you did it to the least among me, you did it to me."
Patrick where does this fit in with who you consider to be your Christian brother ????
one should be quite careful in how you judge, who is your Christian brother.
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AgingYoung
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re: Beliefs in God
Good question, Racer. Simply put a christian is someone that believes that Jesus is Messiah and that God raised him from the dead. What is happening and is going to happen more frequently is that people that want to pander to the christian market share (particularly in politics and entertainment) are going to remake themselves into christians. I think that's good advice to be careful how you judge. In the year of the dog there are going to be a lot more wolves trick or treating as sheep.
When I was clueless and needed an idea you gave me a working model prototype. Lord, when did we give you a working model prototype?
Gene
When I was clueless and needed an idea you gave me a working model prototype. Lord, when did we give you a working model prototype?
Gene
Working Model 2D
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
re: Beliefs in God
I read this today and it really made me think; I want to make it my own sentiment; it is taken from Acts 24 after the Apostle Paul was arrested and brougth before the governor: Paul speaking:
"I admit to you.., I have a hope in God.. that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. In view of this, I also do my best to maintain always a blameless conscience both before God and before men."
--Patrick
"I admit to you.., I have a hope in God.. that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. In view of this, I also do my best to maintain always a blameless conscience both before God and before men."
--Patrick
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ken_behrendt
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re: Beliefs in God
Patrick...
When Paul said that to the governor, he (Paul) fully expected that resurrection to take place sometime in the first century...not 1900+ years later! I can only repeat what I stated above. The various end time prophecies in the Gospels were NOT open ended...they were fully expected by the original Jews who followed the teachings of Jesus' cult to take place before the last of the original Apostles had died off. Well, I think the last apostle to die off was John and his death is estimated to have happened sometime in the '90's of the first century.
Here's another interesting tidbit for everybody. It is generally assumed that the Book of Revelation was written by the Apostle John after he had been exiled to the isle of Patmos in the Aegean by the Romans as punishment for spreading early Christianity.
However, someone did a computer analysis of the text in the Gospel according to John and the Book of Revelation (the Catholics call it the "Apocalypse") and discovered that they were written by two different authors! If that is the case, then one of them is probably a fake! I suspect that the fake is the Book of Revelation. As such, I pay no heed to its bizarre description of the "end times". I recommend to people to keep their focus on Jesus' moral message and not waste time and emotions worrying about "end times" that, so far, are almost 2000 years behind schedule!
ken
When Paul said that to the governor, he (Paul) fully expected that resurrection to take place sometime in the first century...not 1900+ years later! I can only repeat what I stated above. The various end time prophecies in the Gospels were NOT open ended...they were fully expected by the original Jews who followed the teachings of Jesus' cult to take place before the last of the original Apostles had died off. Well, I think the last apostle to die off was John and his death is estimated to have happened sometime in the '90's of the first century.
Here's another interesting tidbit for everybody. It is generally assumed that the Book of Revelation was written by the Apostle John after he had been exiled to the isle of Patmos in the Aegean by the Romans as punishment for spreading early Christianity.
However, someone did a computer analysis of the text in the Gospel according to John and the Book of Revelation (the Catholics call it the "Apocalypse") and discovered that they were written by two different authors! If that is the case, then one of them is probably a fake! I suspect that the fake is the Book of Revelation. As such, I pay no heed to its bizarre description of the "end times". I recommend to people to keep their focus on Jesus' moral message and not waste time and emotions worrying about "end times" that, so far, are almost 2000 years behind schedule!
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Beliefs in God
Ken... Where do you get this info?
Are you saying that the original handwritten manuscripts were availabe for comparison? But everyone knows that ancient historical writings are transcribed by others and then passed on for others to do it also!
edit: Also just something to add to this from my own religious backround..
From Wikipedia:
It rejects attempts to determine, before the fact, if the events of Revelation are occurring by mapping them onto present-day events, taking to heart the Scriptural warning against those who proclaim "He is here!" prematurely. Instead, the book is seen as a warning to be spiritually and morally ready for the end times, whenever they may come ("as a thief in the night"), but they will come at the time of God's choosing, not something that can be precipitated nor trivially deduced by mortals.
So in effect, the doctrine says.. Be prepared for the end, because you or anyone else will never know when the end will come. That is only for God to decide at His discretion and no mere mortal will know the when the end of days will come.
There is some speculation that the John who wrote the gospel is different from the John who wrote the Apocalypse. That doesn't mean that either are fakes!
From Wikipedia:
Traditional views hold that John of Patmos was the same person as John the Apostle, who is also considered to be the author of the Gospel of John. Others speculate that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to at least three separate individuals (see Authorship of the Johannine works). Those in favor of a single common author point to similarities between the Gospel and Revelation. For example, both works frequently refer to Jesus as a lamb or as a shepherd.
In contrast to the traditional view, several lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John or the Epistles of John. Revelation and the Gospel of John are very dissimilar in many ways. For one, the author of Revelation explicitly identifies himself as John several times, but the author of The Gospel of John remains anonymous, never identifying himself directly. The theology of the Gospel is markedly different from that of Revelation. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb—the Gospel uses "amnos", Revelation uses "arnion". Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author. Proponents of the traditional view explain these differences by the collaboration of the author with different scribes.
And here is the Wikipedia link if you want to read more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation
and this is more info on the book of the apocalypse from a Greek Bishop in the US (if your interested).
http://www.goarch.org/print/en/ourfaith/article8081.asp
Are you saying that the original handwritten manuscripts were availabe for comparison? But everyone knows that ancient historical writings are transcribed by others and then passed on for others to do it also!
edit: Also just something to add to this from my own religious backround..
From Wikipedia:
It rejects attempts to determine, before the fact, if the events of Revelation are occurring by mapping them onto present-day events, taking to heart the Scriptural warning against those who proclaim "He is here!" prematurely. Instead, the book is seen as a warning to be spiritually and morally ready for the end times, whenever they may come ("as a thief in the night"), but they will come at the time of God's choosing, not something that can be precipitated nor trivially deduced by mortals.
So in effect, the doctrine says.. Be prepared for the end, because you or anyone else will never know when the end will come. That is only for God to decide at His discretion and no mere mortal will know the when the end of days will come.
There is some speculation that the John who wrote the gospel is different from the John who wrote the Apocalypse. That doesn't mean that either are fakes!
From Wikipedia:
Traditional views hold that John of Patmos was the same person as John the Apostle, who is also considered to be the author of the Gospel of John. Others speculate that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to at least three separate individuals (see Authorship of the Johannine works). Those in favor of a single common author point to similarities between the Gospel and Revelation. For example, both works frequently refer to Jesus as a lamb or as a shepherd.
In contrast to the traditional view, several lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John or the Epistles of John. Revelation and the Gospel of John are very dissimilar in many ways. For one, the author of Revelation explicitly identifies himself as John several times, but the author of The Gospel of John remains anonymous, never identifying himself directly. The theology of the Gospel is markedly different from that of Revelation. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb—the Gospel uses "amnos", Revelation uses "arnion". Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author. Proponents of the traditional view explain these differences by the collaboration of the author with different scribes.
And here is the Wikipedia link if you want to read more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation
and this is more info on the book of the apocalypse from a Greek Bishop in the US (if your interested).
http://www.goarch.org/print/en/ourfaith/article8081.asp
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
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AgingYoung
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re: Beliefs in God
Ken,
The difference between Revelation and the Gospel of John focuses on the difference in how Jesus is described. A computer analysis of writing that determines 2 separate authorships based on style ignores the possibility that a person could indeed write with 2 different styles. That's an absurd conclusion. The Gospel and Revelation do describe a different Jesus yet it's a common human experience to have drastically different behaviors. Most 70 year olds think much differently than 17 year olds. People change. As the preacher put it in Ecclesiastes,
The way Paul put it was, 'if there is no resurrection we are of all people most miserable; eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.' It makes sense to me that if there is no resurrection there is no judgement and if no judgement then morality is a choice. If there is no resurrection you can escape the authority of man and God thru death. You sure can escape man.
The author's of the gospel (who ever you'd imagine they were) explained that Jesus taught a certain moral code. They also taught that there was a resurrection of the just and the unjust. If your conclusion that there is no resurrection is correct it makes sense to scrap everything they taught and do as you think is proper. I mean after all the authors were wrong about resurrection. Who knows what else they were wrong about. It might be that engles and marx were right:
Gene
ps: I just skimmed the communist manifesto to find that quote and was reminded of what an arrogant and bitter pair engles and marx were. I was joking when I suggested maybe they were right.
However, someone did a computer analysis of the text in the Gospel according to John and the Book of Revelation (the Catholics call it the "Apocalypse") and discovered that they were written by two different authors!
The difference between Revelation and the Gospel of John focuses on the difference in how Jesus is described. A computer analysis of writing that determines 2 separate authorships based on style ignores the possibility that a person could indeed write with 2 different styles. That's an absurd conclusion. The Gospel and Revelation do describe a different Jesus yet it's a common human experience to have drastically different behaviors. Most 70 year olds think much differently than 17 year olds. People change. As the preacher put it in Ecclesiastes,
To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:...
The way Paul put it was, 'if there is no resurrection we are of all people most miserable; eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.' It makes sense to me that if there is no resurrection there is no judgement and if no judgement then morality is a choice. If there is no resurrection you can escape the authority of man and God thru death. You sure can escape man.
The author's of the gospel (who ever you'd imagine they were) explained that Jesus taught a certain moral code. They also taught that there was a resurrection of the just and the unjust. If your conclusion that there is no resurrection is correct it makes sense to scrap everything they taught and do as you think is proper. I mean after all the authors were wrong about resurrection. Who knows what else they were wrong about. It might be that engles and marx were right:
“There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience.”
Gene
ps: I just skimmed the communist manifesto to find that quote and was reminded of what an arrogant and bitter pair engles and marx were. I was joking when I suggested maybe they were right.
Working Model 2D
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
re: Beliefs in God
I have done in depth studies of Revelation and can vouch for its authenticity. The author is not important. The message is. This is true of the rest of the scriptures also.
The biggest problem with trying to understand Revelation is that we try to fit it into our understanding instead of comparing it with the rest of scripture and history.
The biggest problem with trying to understand Revelation is that we try to fit it into our understanding instead of comparing it with the rest of scripture and history.
Vic Hays
Ambassador MFG LLC
Ambassador MFG LLC
re: Beliefs in God
Ken, you have yet to explain the leap between 'the prophecies are false' and 'the prophecies as the disciples understood them were false'. If you were were a Jew, outside the Second Temple, and Jesus said to you "Destory this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up", you would think he meant the building. But the term in Hebrew for The Temple is House of God, and if Jesus was indeed God incarnate, then the statement could equally well apply to his body; and it did. Hindsight is 20/20, but only if you look.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
re: Beliefs in God
OK Ken out with it. Are you a member of the clergy?
It makes sense that you indeed have a well
developed skill for writing. You also show signs
of excessive forgiveness. Qualities common to
someone who has or is a leader in his or her church or group of believers.
It makes sense that you indeed have a well
developed skill for writing. You also show signs
of excessive forgiveness. Qualities common to
someone who has or is a leader in his or her church or group of believers.
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
Re: re: Beliefs in God
jesus was talking about his body........, but he was a man, the son of god.Jonathan wrote:Ken, you have yet to explain the leap between 'the prophecies are false' and 'the prophecies as the disciples understood them were false'. If you were were a Jew, outside the Second Temple, and Jesus said to you "Destory this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up", you would think he meant the building. But the term in Hebrew for The Temple is House of God, and if Jesus was indeed God incarnate, then the statement could equally well apply to his body; and it did. Hindsight is 20/20, but only if you look.
keep in mind " God's day " = 1000 years , so on God's time line it has not been 2 full days sence his son jesus was killed.....!
re: Beliefs in God
The World ends (end time) on the day of your death - everyone else must wait their turn.
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ken_behrendt
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re: Beliefs in God
I just did a quick scan of verses in the King James Version of the Book of Revelation that contain the word "come":
These and many other verses throughout the New Testament make it painfully obvious that Jesus' prophesied "Second Coming" to establish the "Kingdom of God" on Earth was not something that was supposed to take place 1900+ in their future! It was to be an imminent event that would involve all of humanity. It never happened...
Jonathan writes:
Wheeler asks:
ken
Revelation 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Revelation 6:17
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
These and many other verses throughout the New Testament make it painfully obvious that Jesus' prophesied "Second Coming" to establish the "Kingdom of God" on Earth was not something that was supposed to take place 1900+ in their future! It was to be an imminent event that would involve all of humanity. It never happened...
Jonathan writes:
Actually, I would think that Jesus was telling me that he intended to rebuild the Temple in only three days. I would not think he was making a reference to his "rebuilding" or resurrecting his body three days after his death. Dead people do not resurrect either themselves or anybody else. All that dead people do, in the absence of proper preservation, is to slowly putrify! However, I do believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead by the "higher power" that he had maintained contact with from the time of his youth.If you were were a Jew, outside the Second Temple, and Jesus said to you "Destory this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up", you would think he meant the building. But the term in Hebrew for The Temple is House of God, and if Jesus was indeed God incarnate, then the statement could equally well apply to his body; and it did.
Wheeler asks:
No, sorry to disappoint you, but I am not a member of the clergy. Such a life holds little appeal for me. I have too many objections when it comes to "matters of faith" in the Roman Catholic Church for me to ever make a good priest. Besides...I like "wimmin" too much!OK Ken out with it. Are you a member of the clergy?
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ