Besslers Codes

[primemignonite]

Mightn't storks bills - where and when found in Bessler's materials - refer to something other than actual physical devices?

How about acceleration, which they seemingly could demonstrate as displacement over time, when actuated by force input.

Also, by the very nature of their physical construction, much friction due to the plethora of joints is fully guaranteed. (Even if ball-bearing equipped, it adds up.)

Additionally and finally, HANDLES very often seem to accompany stork's bills mechanisms, do they not?; maybe as in "insert force HERE, so as to achieve requisite acceleration"?

Just suggestin'

J.

[MrVibrating]

Yes i've pondered much the same thoughts - handles might denote input points, and the storksbill's acceleration curves might be their most interesting quality. However i concluded that even this property is simply a linear version of exactly the same thing a simple rotary lever does - the greater the distance from the fulcrum, the higher the 'edge speed' of any lever or wheel.

The bottom line in all such considerations is simply what the input and output masses are doing - their relative displacements and inertias are all that matters, and as such the storksbills themselves can be entirely disregarded from the picture, and replaced with pulleys or whatever notional mechanisms that accomplish the same relative displacements. You're still left with simple 2D mass translations, trading X for Y or Y1 for Y2 etc.

Over the last week i've been mulling over his descriptions of his "basis of operation" - many separate pieces of lead, acting in pairs, gravitating to the center and climbing back up. Does he mean "a pair gravitate to the center" while another pair "climb back up", or one each of each pair? Either way, the one-way wheels must've started under static torque from one or a pair of these weights gravitating to the center - while the inverse action of one or two either climb up at the same time, or shortly afterwards. If something can be heard landing on the descending side of the wheel, then it's either the weight/s "climbing back up" (since the other/s are at the center), or else the ones at the center are supported by something that lands on the descending side of the wheel.

Dunno, but playing with iterations of these characteristics looking for inspiration. Still, you'd think Oystein's work might offer some clarifications of any of these issues, if he's really on to something..

[Art]

Yes the storksbills are a bit of an enigma as far as I'm concerned .
I've used them in a number of builds and always come away feeling really frustrated with them .

Time consuming to make , high friction when you have them made ,- if you don't make them right , and bite you at every oportunity !

I suspect this is how his friend who didn't know which side of the cart the horse went was probably injured !

The one thing that I think is noticeable about them however is that if you fold them , and you have even a small weight on the final 'bill' , and let them open by allowing the weight to drop vertically , then you had better make sure you don't have the 'handle end' in the form of a scissors or bolt cutter arrangement or you could very easily lose a digit . The levered force you can achieve with them is quite incredible .

I actually have a rivet gun which is operated by pulling open a storksbill arrangement , if you have the room on whatever it is you're riveting then a child could operate it with no bother , even with large rivets ! I would recommend it to Trevor : )

I hadn't thought along the lines of it being Besslers way of indicating the use of acceleration or high leverage , you could have a good point there Primemignonite .

.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Art,

you must mean the other Trevor, that lack of a rivet would not stop a build of mine, any engineer worth is salt should be able to get around that one.

I made my storkbill's out of two of the said riveting tools, it worked out quicker and cheaper for the main parts, then I only had to build the center sliders and the levers to work them.

I often think we should be using them in reverse, wherein they are not for moving weight to out of balance positions but used as the driver. + I never got to the design stage though.

I still think they may be used to move weights to a out of balance position though, but you would need the use of spring to lighten them up a lot, because without some assistance they can be more than a 3 to 1 negative force for vertical lifts.

I only built a pair on a wheel to have a play, I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I soon got bored with then because they would be a very complicated build to start adding spring and multi storkbills.

[Art]

Hi Trevor LW - (The Good ! : ) ) ,

Quote -"I often think we should be using then in reverse, wherein they are not for moving weight to out of balance positions but used as the driver."

------------------

When you look at Murilo's Avalanche Drive I think it is almost a storksbill in reverse ! (Where is Murilo anyway ? - hope that guy who reckoned he was owed money didn't catch up with him ! ? : )

I may have another go along that route as a final attempt based on Besslers preoccupation with them in M.T. , hoping that he hasn't stuck them in there as a 'red herring' and that they must be useful for something

.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Art, All,

I have been given storkbills some more thought this afternoon, and have scribbled some drawings on a back of a old envelope "well I could not find a cigarette packet" I will draw the best options to scale and post them when I get some more time

My last build with storkbills I put rollers on the center pivots to run in slots, I still have one of them, but rebuilt the other one back into a riveter.

This is the drawing description (anticlockwise rotation),

I have 4 sets of pivoting cross bars X (any number) the cross bars center pivot is pivoting on the wheel, one at the top, one at the bottom, one on the left and one on the right, there are two weights on each cross bar, look at the left side the weights would be on the top of the X and the X would be closed, looking at the right side the weights would be at the bottom and the X would be open, attached to the X cross bars would be a pivoting V frame facing out, at the end of which would be a weight, on the left side the weights are moved outward on a slider, on the right side they are moved inward, looking at the left side X cross bar the top left weight hits a stop on the wheel to help weight the wheel outward as well as the driven outward V frame weight when the X cross bar is closed, Looking at the right hand side Open X there would be a stop on the wheel to stop the inward weight of the X pivoting cross Bars.

Here is the thinking, the weights on the the pivoting cross bars should be in a balance until they hit there stops, where they switch to a unbalance and at the same time the pivoting Vs weights will be moved in and out.

To advance the timing and early falling, looking a the left side the X & V pivoting bars and the V weight sliders Horizontal maybe made Higher than the axle and the rest would be made to be the same when in that position

Edit, with eight sets it could even sound like Bessler's wheel, "well you have to find something to tie it in with Bessler's Wheel" lol.

This is got to be worth a build, as if I did not have enough outstanding builds already.

Edit, I have decided to build just one set and a counter weight on the opposite side of the wheel, this should let me know if there is anything there and save time. Also I will try the multi storkbills and slider I have already and weight all the pivoting cross bars on the top arms in the same way as above left hand layout, this will be with a counter weight also, If they have any merit then I will go for a full 8 set build, I will let you know what happens.

[primemignonite]

These stork's bills seem really interesting, even just as objects, at least.

I think in this thread, some respondent commented that they were very difficult to build and get to work.

Of course it is a matter of workmanship but as well, of initial geometry, I believe. (i.e. An accurate progressing of three-center-pairs, each to the next rightly. This really cannot be 'calculated' but instead drawn geometrically gnat's-ass accurate, the resulting centers' measurements taken and then, constructed with equivalent fineness.)

To the end of being of some little help here, possibly, I have drawn-out in-line a nine segment unit.

This is a .wmf vector file, and in any draw type program, can be scaled up, made less wide or long or less, all-the-while maintaining ultimate proportional accuracy..

My question right now is: HOW might I attach this here as a standalone file, so that it might be accessible to all, as it is?

James

[primemignonite]

"Is the missing mechanism something that applies a horizontal force?" - MrVibrating

On further thought, I think so.

MT083 and 084 both show stork's bills that are suspended/actuated from both THEIR CENTERS!

Can anyone explain what those would be doing mechanically, other than providing lots of frictional loss while accordioning back and forth?

Also in those examples, any handles are nowhere to be seen.

Functionally this is nonsensical. The only way it could accepted as not, I suggest, is that if they are representative or symbolic of some thing other than those type of mechanical devices as depicted.

James

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi James,

Storks bills are very telescopic device with good compression forces when used for riveting tool, and maybe good for actuating reservoirs, but like any use of levers it comes at a cost of force and distance. They take a large force input to work against gravity so that rules them out for any vertical lifting, although the use of springs may be used to reduce the force needed, but then it starts getting complicated, and it was said Bessler device was very simple.

So what are we left with? The answer is to mount them and work them on the horizontal and make them work with gravity to speed them up (as I suggested in my above post, then you would need to redirect any forces you can to the positive, but it is looking more like a red herring to me. I will post my drawings on the other thread.

I think Bessler was just as fascinated with them as we are, what a good distraction.

[primemignonite]

"I think Bessler was just as fascinated with them as we are, what a good distraction." - Tevor

Yes, this sounds right Trevor, and maybe a little creepy in a subtle way, as well.

In the Wild, Wild West we once had out here, I remember seeing shaving mirrors used that were suspended by horizontally poised stork's bills things, or lazy tongs. These supports held the mirrors up well and also allowed them to be positioned in all ways quite easily. All of the connecting parts were of identical length, unlike in Bessler's drawings.

Maybe if I were to design and build handle-equipped Bessler stork's bills finished-up very well, the Besslerites, Besslerellas and Besslerettes here might actually like to buy some.

Such as I conceive these, they would appear very 18th Century and STRANGE, and therefor appealing in that special way.

Think of it:

If we cannot yet have gayly-turning Bessler Wheels, at least we could his storky extenders. I could fashion the things exactly from one of the MT's proportions and include "BESSLER" and some date-appropriate or other, as actually burned into the wood using my "Frankenstein" type face! - all this to be varnished-up quite nicely.

Just a wild thought likely to enrage the ever-lurking MAC's.

James

[AB Hammer]

James

I enjoy scissor jacks and I do have use for them.

[primemignonite]

OK, AB!

That is very encouraging.

So, as I described it above, might you consider buying one if priced in accordance with it's excellence of workmanship and finish?

Just wundrin' . . .

James

PS Also, 'twould have stamped upon it proudly "MADE IN USA"

[Grimer]

I can see why people are fascinated with storkbills.

Above is a dynamic version of a storkbill compressed in the middle so that its ends move out.

This is the basic action of the atoms and molecules in the rubber bands of the Rubber Band Motor which harnesses Newtonian Gravity.

Thus the storkbill is the action of the whirler reduced from 3 to 2 dimensions.