Beliefs in God

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ken_behrendt
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by ken_behrendt »

I think when a member of the scientific orthodoxy declares that a perpetual motion machine is impossible, then he is correct just so long as he states that one can not build a machine that creates energy. I, too, feel that is impossible.

When a person reads about Johann Bessler's wheels outputting energy to their immediate environments to perform useful work, then it is easy to immediately declare that his inventions must have been fakes that had to have a hidden, though conventional, power source...such as, perhaps, a person in an adjoining room maintaining the motion via a cleverly concealed mechanism.

My way around this problem is to simply say that a working gravity wheel does not create energy, but, rather, is able to tap some unseen or normally unappreciated source of energy. As I'm sure everybody here knows by now, I favor the idea that ANY type of working overbalancing type gravity wheel will actually, while in rotation, be converting minute amounts of the rest masses of its weights directly into mechanical energy to power the wheel and anything attached to it. Such a power source, according to the concepts of relativity theory, makes sense to me and such a source of power would certainly not have occurred to either Bessler or the others who examined his machines.

If I'm right, then, even by my definition, such a device would not truly be "perpetual" because, perhaps after millenia of its outputting energy (assuming its parts did not wear out!), the weights in it would no longer have any rest mass left. They would eventually become massless and, thus, weightless and the gravity wheel would no longer have any imbalance in it to make it run. Yes, the idea of massless lead weights is rather bizarre, to say the least. But, then again, so is much of modern physics. Perhaps there would be some process that would prevent this from happening and which would somehow restore the rest masses of the weights by taking it from the environment.

This is, of course speculation on my part. For the immediate future, we need to concentrate on finding that mechanism that does, indeed, maintain the imbalance in a rotating set of weights. Once that is done, we can worry about developing the precise physics needed to rationalize the effect.


Jonathan...

You wrote:
The Catholics are wrong because they have many meaningless traditions, and tend to worship Mary.
I agree that a lot of the rituals in Catholocism do not make sense if one goes strictly by the Gospels. The Roman Catholic Church, however, justifies any of its beliefs by just stating that Peter (considered to be the first Pope) was given the "keys to the kingdom" and, therefore, he and his predecessors have free reign to institute any rituals or beliefs that they want! (I also question the meaning of the verse that is based on!)

Many of the rituals in Catholocism are derived from a mixture of the New Testament and various "oral traditions". Generally, although I am sure that I would have "logical" objections to the tenets of practically any religion, I can peacefully co-exist with them just so long as they do not try to force beliefs on me and I am convinced that their members have "a good heart" when it comes to their dealings with their fellow human beings...even if they are members of a different faith.


Genesis 2:7 states:
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


I think it this context that the word "soul" probably means "being"...I think I'd believe in the conventional idea of a soul more if Gen 2:7 could be translated as "...and a spirit being was given a physical body and became a living man".


ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:

Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by AgingYoung »

text
is able to tap some unseen or normally unappreciated source of energy.
sounds too mystical to suit me.
Working Model 2DImage
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by racer270 »

The truth about the father the sun and the Holy Spirit.

People who believe the Trinity teachings say that God consists of three persons the father to son the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning according to the Trinity doctrine therefore the father is God the son is God the Holy Spirit is God yet there is only one God. Many who believe the Trinity admit that that they are not able to explain the teaching still they may feel that it is taught in the Bible it is worth noting that the word Trinity never occurs in the Bible.

But is the idea of the Trinity found their? To answer this question let us look up a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity John 1:1 states in the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word was God King James or later in the same chapter the apostle John clearly shows that the word is Jesus in John 1:14 since the word is called God, however, some conclude that the son and the father must be part of the same God.

Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translations though, did not use the phrase the Word was God. Why not?

Based on the knowledge of Biblical Greek those translators concluded that the phrase the Word was God should be translated differently. How?

Here are a few examples the logos word was divine a new translation of the Bible the word was a god.

The New Testament in an improved version the word was with God and shared his nature.

The translator's new testament according to these translations the word is not God himself instead, because of his high position among Jehovah's creatures, the word is referred to as a gap here the term God means might one.

Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example a schoolteacher explains a subject to his students afterwards, the students differ on how to understand they explanation how can a student resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1 you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus and his position learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion for instance consider what John further rights in chapter 1 verse 18 no man has seen Almighty God at any time however, humans have seen Jesus the son, for John says the word Jesus was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory.

John 1:14 in the King James how then, could the son be part of Almighty God?

John also states that the Word was with God but how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person?

Moreover as recorded at John 17: 3 Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his father the only true God.

And towards the end of the Gospel John sums up matters by saying these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God John 20:31 notice that Jesus is called not God, but the son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the word is a god. In the sense that he had a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

Now let's confirm some facts.

Think again about the sample of schoolteacher and the student. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teachers additional explanation what could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example regarding the end of the system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying concerning that day and hour nobody knows neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father. Matthew 24:36, how do those words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God ?

Jesus says that the father knows more than the son does. if Jesus were part of Almighty God, however he would know the same facts as his father. So, then, the son and the father can not be equal.

Yet, some will say Jesus had two nature's here he speaks as a man . But even if that were so, what about the Holy Spirit?

If it is part of the same God as the father why does Jesus not say that it knows what the father knows?

Many more Bible passages confirm the truth about the father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Psalms 90:2, Acts 7:55, Colossians 1:15.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by racer270 »

no trinity.....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God is not three persons.......Deuteronomy6:4, Malachi2:10, Mark10:18, Romans 3:29,30

Son was created:God was alone before....Revelation 3:14, Colossians 1:15, Isaiah 44:6

God is the ruler of the universe at all times...Phillipians 2:5,6; Daniel 4:35

God is to be exalted above all...Phillipians 2:10,11

Son was obedient in heaven, sent by the Father....John 8:42, 12:49

Obedient on earth, the Father is Greater.......John 14:28, 5:19; Hebrews 5:8

Exalted in heaven, Jesus still subject to the Father.....................Phillipians 2:9 1 Corrinthians 15:28 Matthew 20:23

Jehovah is Christ's head and God.....1 Corrinthians 11:3 John 20:17 Revelation 1:6
Last edited by racer270 on Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by Jonathan »

Wheeler, the specs of Bill's design haven't been posted, only the gist of the concept. Also, Gene showed how to link a word.
In that case Ken, you won't find the reference, the conventional idea is wrong.
Gordon, how many times will you mention things I have addressed?
>no man has seen Almighty God at any time however, humans have seen Jesus the son<
His body did not convey the True nature of God.
From my birth was my hand, and my hand was with me, and my hand was me. No one knows when my hand will do something, not even my hand. Only I know when my hand will do something. What I've said makes sense, and all you have to do is replace "my hand" with "Jesus" (not cheeses :D), "my birth" with "the beginning", and "me/I" with "God".
>He calls his father the only true God.<
Wouldn't my hand call me master?
You quote other passages, but you didn't say colon, and I don't want to take the time to try placing it myself until I find your point. EDIT You fixed the colons, and now there are so many!
Tell me this Gordon: of the billions of people who have lived and the millions of sins they've committed each, how could the death of one good, great man be sufficient to atone for it all?
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by racer270 »

still no trinity................

God and Christ are always in complete Harmony.......John 8:28,29;14:10

They have a oneness,like that of husband and wife......John 10:30;Matthew 19:4-6

All believers must have the same oneness.....John 17:20-22;1 Corrinthians 1:10

One worship of Jehovah through Christ forever.......John 4:23,24



God's holy spirit is his active force
a force not a person.....Matthew 3:16; John 20:22; Acts 2:4, 17, 33

not a person in heaven with God and Christ......Acts 7:55, 56;Revelation 7:10

directed by God to accomplish purposes.....Psalm 104:30; 1 Corrinthians 12:4-11

those serving God, guided by it......1 Corrinthians 2:12, 13;Galatians 5:16
Last edited by racer270 on Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by racer270 »

Jonathan,

Here's your answer.................

Jesus' human life paid as a "ransom for all"
Jesus gave his life a ransom......Matthew 20:28
Value of shed blood provides remission of sin.....Hebrews 9:14, 22
One sacrifice was sufficient for all time......Romans 6:10; Hebrews 9:26
Benefits are not automatic:must be acknowledged......John 3:16

Was corresponding price
Adam created perfect......Deuteronomy 32:4, Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 1:31
Lost perfection for self and children by sin....Romans 5:12, 18
Children helpless;exact equal of Adam needed.....Psalm 49:7; Deuteronomy 19:21
Jesus' perfect human life a ransom......1 Timmothy2:25, 6;1 Peter 1:18,19

p.s. the talkie type doesn't put in punctuation all the time
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Re: re: Beliefs in God

Post by winkle »

ken_behrendt wrote:I think it this context that the word "soul" probably means "being"...I think I'd believe in the conventional idea of a soul more if Gen 2:7 could be translated as "...and a spirit being was given a physical body and became a living man". ken
Ken

Adam was an immortal being with a physical body until he ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

in that moment he became mortal

Ge:2:17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
the uneducated

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Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by Jonathan »

Deu 6:4, Mal 2:10, Mar10:18, Rom 3:29,30 No one is arguing that God is three.
Rev 3:14 "beginning" is translated from Greek arche, the world was created through Him, and He is the Ruler:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/ ... -7298.html
Col 1:15 You read this to mean He was created before all other beings, but if you read it that literally then He is literally the first born child of each creature. That would mean that my older sister, my mom, and my aunt are all Jesus, since they were firstborn in their respective families. You completely ignore Col 1:16.
Isa 44:6 "besides" is translated from Hebrew bil'adey, meaning "other than".
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/ ... -2010.html
Phl 2:5,6; Dan 4:35; Phl 2:10,11; Jhn 8:42, 12:49 No one argues with these either.
Jhn 14:28, 5:19; Hbr 5:8; Phl 2:9; 1Cor 15:28; Mat 20:23; 1Cor 11:3; Jhn 20:17; Rev 1:6 No one disagrees here.
I don't disagree with any of your other list of references. I think you misunderstand what is commonly meant by 'three persons'.
My question to you was, how is one human life, no matter how great, sufficient?
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by racer270 »

I didn't ignore Colossians 1:16, it actually supports my points. You totally misrepresent Colossians 1:15, by taking it out of context. Furthermore my points are substantiated even more by reading Colossians 1:13-29.



Why Christians do not use the cross in worship.

The cross is loved and respected by millions of people. The Encyclopedia Britannica calls the cross the principal symbol of the Christian religion.

Nevertheless true Christians do not use the cross in worship. Why not?

An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on the cross, the Greek word generally translates cross into stauros'. It basically means an upright pale or steak. The companion Bible points out "(Stauros') never means to pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle.... there is nothing in the Greek of the new testament even to imply two pieces of timber.

In several texts, bibble writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus's death. It is the Greek word xy'lon acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13, first Peter 2:24 this word simply means timber or a stick, club, or tree.

Explain why a simple stake was often used for executions, the book Das Kreuz und die Kreuzigung , the cross and the crucifixion, by Hermann Fulda, states: trees were not everywhere available at the place chosen for public execution . So a simple beam was sunk into the ground. On this the outlaws, with hands raised upward and often also with their feet, were bound or nailed.

The most convincing proof of all, however, comes from God's word.

The apostle Paul says: Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: accursed is every man hanged upon a stake, a tree,King James version "Galatians 3:13 here Paul quotes Deuteronomy 21:22, 23, which clearly refers to a stake, not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person a curse, it would not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled.

There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Christ , those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the fourth century however, pagan emperor Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol.

Whatever Constantine's motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus Christ. The cross is, in fact, pagan in origin.

The new Catholic Encyclopedia admits" that the cross is found in both pre- Christian and non-Christian cultures." Various other authorities have linked the cross with nature worship and pagan sex rites.

Why, then, was this pagan symbol promoted? Apparently, to make it easier for pagans to accept Christianity nevertheless devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the Bible 2 Corinthians 6:14 -18 the Scriptures also forbid all forms of idolatry. Exodus 20:4, 5; 1Corinthians 10:14.
With very good reason therefore true Christians do not use the cross.
Last edited by racer270 on Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by SeaWasp »

Gordy... In 312, Constantine had a vision of a cross in the sky and he adopted Christianity. Without which, nearly all of our Christian churches would not exist. It was one of the major turning points in all of history.

From this page some interesting reading regarding "the cross"

http://greekorthodox.home.att.net/stsco ... helen.html

Constantine was an observant lad and he learned much in the palace of the emperor. He also saw the Faith demonstrated by Christians whom the emperor bitterly persecuted. Once, he was present when Diocletian was consulting demonic oracles on how to proceed in a certain war. Among the crowd of onlookers, there were secret Christians who were protecting themselves from the demons by making the sign of the cross, though they did so in a way not to be noticed. As a result, the pagan sacrifices brought no result to foretell the future, and the pagan priest blamed the failure on the presence of Christians in the vicinity. The emperor was furious, but Constantine, who had been very observant, pondered deeply on all this. He concluded that the cross of the Christians had indeed made the pagan rites useless. This recognition of the power residing in the holy cross was planted in the future Saint's heart like a mustard seed, and this seed would later grow very great indeed!

Here is what the historian Eusebius recorded about what happened:

While Constantine was thus praying. a marvelous sign appeared to him from Heaven. . . about noon, just as the day was beginning to decline, he saw with his own eyes the trophy of a Cross of light in the heavens above the sun, bearing the inscription “BY THIS CONQUER”. He was struck with amazement, as was his whole army, which witnessed the miracle, and pondered on its reason and meaning. That night, the saint had a dream, and saw a cross with the Greek letters Chi (X) and Rho (P). These are the first two letters of the Greek name of Christ. During this heavenly vision, our Saviour instructed Constantine to use the emblem of this cross as a protection in battle. The following day, Constantine had this sign painted on the armor of his soldiers, and he ordered them to carry it before them on a standard. Likewise, he had this sign painted on his helmet, as well as on a banner which he carried. This became the famous chi-rho symbol, which was known in the Latin language as the labarum.
On October 28, 312, Maxentius and his troops advanced across the Tiber River to attack Constantine. MaxentiusÂ’ plan was to force Constantine and his troops to cross the old Milvian Bridge, which he had weakened so that it would collapse under their weight. Maxentius' army attacked, but was unable to force Constantine's army across the bridge. Instead, they retreated and attempted to cross the bridge themselves, thus falling into their own trap. The bridge collapsed and Maxentius drowned, together with much of his army. The Church Fathers compare this with the drowning of the Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea, yet another similarity in the life of Saint Constantine to that of the Prophet Moses.
The next day, Constantine and his troops triumphantly entered Rome, where jubilant crowds welcomed him as their deliverer. Maxentius had not been a popular ruler because of his excessive cruelty. Now Constantine became the sole ruler of the western part of the empire. One of his first acts was to persuade Licinius, the current emperor of the eastern part of the empire, to grant freedom to the Church. The two met in February of 313, in the northern Italian city of Milan, where they signed what is now referred to as the Edict of Milan, granting freedom of worship to Christians and all peoples throughout the empire. Thus the principle of tolerance for Christians throughout the Roman Empire was established, something which was unthinkable before Constantine's rise to emperor of the west.
Constantine's victory at the Milvian Bridge had convinced him that God had chosen him as an instrument and that his victories were a part of God's providence. With that awareness, he began struggling to understand the Christian faith. etcetera..

So irrespective of the "translated" meaning of the word "cross", it became the "symbol" for the "true Christian" right from the beginning.

And so rather to bore anyone further with all this copy & pasting, a good read about the cross can be found here: As the Romans did utilise crosses for crucifictions..

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20011208.htm

So please be a little more "respectful" in your definition of a "true christian". As this implies that false christians believe in a cross. I don't believe that God intended us mere mortals to judge others based on translated words. Rather on our deeds, commitment, devotion and Love to Him.

It is by the same token, that I believe that you are a true christian by those things, and not by your belief in the shape of a symbolic item. I hope that you will extend the same courtesy.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by racer270 »

I wasn't intentionally trying to disrespect anyone's beliefs.........I was trying to point out that the instrument of death was not a literal cross, in Jesus' case.

According to Acts 5:30; 10:39; Galatians 3:13-Jesus was hanged on an execution stake or tree.

And actually, the historical rendition you posted, supports my statements that Constantine was the origin of the symbol of the cross.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by SeaWasp »

Gordy, have you seen & gone to the other link posted? The Romans did indeed have a vertical stake within the ground. The about to be crucified, would carry and be fastened to the cross section to which they were hoisted up, and this cross section then fastened to the pole. This ultimately formed a "cross" with the crucified attached.

Also, the sign of the cross was established by the early christians (before Constantine), to define themselves and to show others that they were christians. These Christians were a lot closer to the time of events than ourselves. They must have been aware of the smaller details involved.

The evidence could go either way in this respect. Whether the cross was a vertical stake or a vertical stake with a cross-bar, the initial meaning could be defined or attached to both. The cross was not defined as a christian symbol at that time. Only afterwards. And as such the word stauros could be attached to both constructions. That is both types of "crosses" would have or could have been labelled as "stauros" (spoken as "stavros").

And from Luke 9:23 "And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."

Edited for clarity.
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by ken_behrendt »

Gordy wrote:
An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on the cross...
If that was the case, then are we supposed to believe that Jesus walked the Via Dolorosa empty handed?

As I understand it, Jesus was carrying the horizontal cross member to which his arms would have been nailed by the wrists on the day he was executed (which could have been Friday, April 3, 33 AD...the day of a total solar eclipse in Jerusalem). This piece was probably made from walnut tree wood and would have weighed about 40 to 60 lbs. He did not drag and entire cross because the vertical member was left at the execution site and reused for other executions. That vertical piece could have weighed between 120 and 180 lbs.


ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, &#969;, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle &#966;, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:

Vaver = -2(&#8730;2)&#960;d&#969;cos&#966;
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re: Beliefs in God

Post by rlortie »

Ken,

<This piece was probably made from walnut tree>

There are many who interpret the Bible to believe that it was not Walnut but Dogwood.

This to some, explains the cross that can be seen in dogwood blossoms.
It is also said that God stated that there after, no dogwood tree would grow big enough to be used in such manner.

Have you seen any large dogwood trees lately?
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