The ONE WORD that could give it ALL AWAY !

[Sam Peppiatt]

A square pully? I don't think so. The flanges might be square but, not the hub----------------------------Sam

[Fletcher]

I am not of the opinion that Karl needed to be convinced , on the contrary i am saying , by reading the above ,
Bessler seem to have approached Karl , and proposed an agreement where Karl would inspect and put it to test ,
such as to put down the allegations made against Bessler and took up the wager of duration.

I am not very convinced that Karl paid Bessler to see the inside - in this specific account of events, unless i am clearly unaware or forgotten something ?

IIRC Karl was so convinced that it was the real deal that he not only signed the official document of its authenticity, but also IIRC passed a decree that no one was to denigrate B's. machines in print from that time on. And so Wagner, Gartner, and Borlach et al were muted, under threat of consequences.

That's a pretty strong and convincing measure for Karl to take in B's favour, and Karl's complete understanding of the motive force.

.. To stifle free speech of unsubstantiated opinion. Karl knew the SIMPLE FACTS !

[Fletcher]

I remember getting the impression that after B had his dream, the new idea he tried was accomplished very quickly. So it must have been quite simple.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8603&p=179362&hilit=dream#p179362

B. had his epiphany moment in a dream. He subsequently built his first experiments which were very encouraging, but not a full runner.

"I saw that I had finally made the right choice, and why ( mine .. ALL ) the earlier ones had been wrong."

He was so relieved that he took time off, got married, and went on holiday, cleared his head no doubt.

He went to Gera and rented a house with large rooms that was private. And quickly built the very first PM runner - the Gera one-way wheel.

** There were no do-overs ** straight from previous encouraging experiments to a fully fledged runner in a short time interval !!!

He knew why ALL others beforehand had been wrong i.e. every single one of his (and others) previous ideas and builds did not have the change he made, IMO. It was a simple solution to a previously simple but unworkable machine, IMO !!!

[Tarsier79]

I'm not sure it was that simple. It makes no sense to drop everything and run off on errands or holiday. I think he needed time to figure out how to either maximise power output, multiply mechanisms, calculate forces or weights etc. He knew how to do it, but had a mechanical challenge to overcome (even if it was only simplification) and or a mathematical model to build.

[Fletcher]

I'm sure you are right Tarsier .. who wouldn't spend the time wisely. Pondering, plotting, improving, maximising.

But I feel sure once he knew what that critical change was, doubts went out the door ** happy days for him **

But I add the caveat that imo not every failed OOB idea or concept previously tried by him (or others) could be turned into a runner with his changes. This must be so from a logic point of view else someone somewhere somehow sometime would have stumbled upon the exact same changes required (to any or most wheels), given the number and variation of possible OOB designs out there now and then !

Sheer weight of numbers and probability.

[John Collins]

Two points to consider; once he knew the secret to a working model Bessler returned to his former girlfriend and persuaded her father to let him marry her and give him her dowry, enough money to set himself up in lodgings where he could build his wheel securely. There is a lot of information in my follow up book about the father-in-law who, as well as being a doctor was also the head of local gang, a bit like a local mafia. His wife and her maid and one daughter were subject to a high-up legal investigation into a case of infanticide connected with black magic! The father did a deal which involved Bessler taking his daughter and that same maid who swore he was a cheat, far away from him so that the investigation would stop through lack of witnesses. That maid was causing him many problems and had already been out in prison twice for spreading malicious rumours about him.

The second point is that if it was so obvious to Bessler how to build a working model that he dropped everything and visited his girlfriend to get some funds for his planned build, then it must have been equally obvious to Karl thar the machine was genuine and he was surprised that no one had invented it before.

JC

[eccentrically1]

A square pully? I don't think so. The flanges might be square but, not the hub----------------------------Sam

The rope appears to be drawn around a square corner

[eccentrically1]

Two points to consider; once he knew the secret to a working model Bessler returned to his former girlfriend and persuaded her father to let him marry her and give him her dowry, enough money to set himself up in lodgings where he could build his wheel securely. There is a lot of information in my follow up book about the father-in-law who, as well as being a doctor was also the head of local gang, a bit like a local mafia. His wife and her maid and one daughter were subject to a high-up legal investigation into a case of infanticide connected with black magic! The father did a deal which involved Bessler taking his daughter and that same maid who swore he was a cheat, far away from him so that the investigation would stop through lack of witnesses. That maid was causing him many problems and had already been out in prison twice for spreading malicious rumours about him.

The second point is that if it was so obvious to Bessler how to build a working model that he dropped everything and visited his girlfriend to get some funds for his planned build, then it must have been equally obvious to Karl thar the machine was genuine and he was surprised that no one had invented it before.

JC

It seems odd a Doctor who was the local mafia boss would need help with his maid.

[ArchCalc]

I'm not sure it was that simple. It makes no sense to drop everything and run off on errands or holiday. I think he needed time to figure out how to either maximise power output, multiply mechanisms, calculate forces or weights etc. He knew how to do it, but had a mechanical challenge to overcome (even if it was only simplification) and or a mathematical model to build.

So then what the timeline of B’s account means is that the solution is not obvious. He wasn’t 100% sure at first. But once he tried it, it looked good and he found such relief that he felt he could finally stop having to try. There’s something in between obviousness. Some “artistic application” stands in the way.
I’m thinking it was something similar to a Slinky toy. Something that once it got going, continuously fell over. And that the solution is located more in the RESET of whatever it is. Something that makes the reset disappear.

[Sam Peppiatt]

eccentrically1,
I have to back up, can't be sure of the one on the pump. However, the smaller one, on the wheel is shown square. I find it hard to believe that it would actually work, in practice but, if you think it would work; it's fine with me-------------------------Sam

[ArchCalc]

Resent

[ArchCalc]

eccentrically1,
I have to back up, can't be sure of the one on the pump. However, the smaller one, on the wheel is shown square. I find it hard to believe that it would actually work, in practice but, if you think it would work; it's fine with me-------------------------Sam

A square pully? I don't think so. The flanges might be square but, not the hub----------------------------Sam

CC0EBC8B-7C45-4929-8F61-336685FDCD7B.jpeg

The square pulley will work the same as a circular one would.

What else in the drawing looks the same as the Archimedes screw? The wheel axle does. A clue of some sort?

Also. The rope driving the screw is crossed over to make it turn in the opposite direction as that of the wheel. Why, when the wheel can turn both ways?

[ArchCalc]

Resent

[Sam Peppiatt]

Arch Calc,
You might twist the rope to get more wrap around them, to reduce slippage. I think eccentrically is right they were both square. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No. Square would not work very good. In 1700 they probably didn't know that. I mean how would they. I'm looking at it in hind site------------------------------Sam

[eccentrically1]

The reason for the rope to cross over itself would be to orient the direction of the screw ,
it seems. Because the spiral screw only works in one direction the wheel would need to turn in the correct direction. But since it turns both ways it doesn’t seem necessary to cross the rope. Perhaps he didn’t want to bother because of the one way direction the hammers needed lifting in the other demonstration.