Gravity Wheel

[agor95]

The pendulum weight hitting the slider weights appears to be stealing the wheel rotation energy

That is an expected effect. I am looking at a bar from the bolt to the Center of Mass [COM] of the pendulum. That being extended to just missing the next bolt down.

This should allow the wheel to rotate at a slower rate.

Also the wheel should be powered up to an operating rotation rate.

I have no problem with doing that for a prototype device.
Having a self starter is nice to have, but a prolonged run is the name of the game at this stage.

One of the questions I want to look into in dradford's animation of page 9.

[1] Can the pendulum follow this path and what are the conditions?
[2] With the masses distributed in this way; is the wheel balanced or not?
[3] If the pendulum are naturally following this path does moving them from this path
affect the action on the wheel's rotation?

Note. If the sliding weights momentum was used to kick the right
pendulum out more on it's normal path and held there it could be helpful.

Cheers

[Calloway]

If anyone else is building this design, I have found you must keep the gloves postion on the gradient line along with the slider weight pairs. Not sticking up or below. More later.

[Calloway]

The back drag on my wheel has been reduced dramatically by incorporating a pulley system instead of a stiff wire. When the pendulum weight pushes the left slider weight to the right towards the axle, the right slider weight is being pulled to the right by the cord with the pulley system at the same time in a CW rotation. Very simple setup and easy to install. No more axle interference either. The wonder of pulleys. This suggestion was made by ME earlier in the thread.


<ME So maybe wire is just the way to go. When you are going to add more weight to those slider it may cause fatigue when it pushes via such wire.
I think the easiest solution is a circular pulley with a string.>

Cheers

[ME]

Cool!

Added benefit is that the cost is almost zero and, depending on what you use, neither adds significant weight.
When it slips then try to wrap it twice around the pulleywheel for adding a full circle of contact area - Sometimes also helpful when the pulley goes up-side-down.
Yes, pulleys for the win!

[Calloway]

For those that may be interested in how I setup my pulley system. Cheers

[Calloway]

I would like to say Merry Christmas to everyone in the group. I'm sorta of surprised that no one has tackled this design so far. I guess no one is confident that it will run, and I can understand that. All the information to build is in this thread, so I'm not needed anymore. My last information to add to this design is I use one pound pendulum weights to push the sliding weight block pairs using the pulley system starting at the 8 o'clock position. I hope everyone also has a Happy New Year. I'm going to take a long needed rest that I haven't had in years. Cheers, Robert

[agor95]

Have a Merry Christmas Calloway.

I expect we have some builders out there that will progress the Calloway GW.

All the Best

[FunWithGravity2]

Where's Crazy Dave (the pendulum wiz) when you need him. He's got some nice vids of his experiments on YouTube. Can't remember where to find them now.

His handle here is FunWithGravity2

Found one of them. MrJudgeFreed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy0gKtWc6Bc&t=38s

Hey Fletcher,

Saw this post for the first time and made it as far as this page.(12 i think). Strangle enough i did a video just the other day with just two pendulums hanging from a wheel and rotated at different speeds. Something i had done many times before but wanted to get something i could work with for more minute observations of CF. Not sure where this thread went after page 12 but it had clearly gone well off the rails well before that. many of the assumptions that i saw being put forward by the designer are not only counter intuitive but just downright don't match real world observations.

Simply put the pendulums will not do what is expected of them in this scenario(once again i only got as far as page 12 so everyone else may have that figured by now). only two well designed pendulums and one cross bar would be enough to prove that the pendulums don't behave as they are assumed to in this situation. Being that this design is so simple it is one that should generate a working POP right away. Since it is four months later and there isn't one assume(although i know) that this design is a failure.

Now i am not saying that the person is a failure or that there are terrible ideas here but the thread itself does nothing to help others on the road. So many wrong assumptions are made and then presented as fact that the waters for anyone else become so muddied that its clearer than ever that the only way to succeed is to ignore all information you have ever seen or learned and find the movement yourself.


Now of course if nothing has changed about this forum over the years(which it hasn't) then the responses to this thread will be fairly simple to predict.


The OP will claim "OK if that's what you think" with some coy wink or nod to suggest they know more than I do. Or claim that i must show them why they are wrong. Sorry but that is not my job. The OP is wrong to present operational theory as fact. From just the first few pages it was obvious he was envisioning a stationary pendulum and assuming it works the same in a rotating frame of reference. But what irked me was the response to others that suggested maybe they were wrong and he had POP that showed it working the way he WISHED.

Even at half the speed (up to page 12) that the OP thinks the wheel will work at the pendulums will be held out by CF on BOTH sides of the wheel and only slowly without force come to rest against the sliding weights. and move NOTHING. Since it has been four moths since then i might try to catch up and see for myself what path this thread went in. I would guess that the paths of thought went towards multiplying mechanisms(always a favorite and always a fail). Maybe the speed and dimensions were altered as a way of determining efficacy but that also gets away from proving the POP.

Now with that said, I do believe the lessons that can be learned from this AND MT9 are the answer. I Personally feel no one ever actually learns what they are supposed to from MT9 and moves past it with an incorrect assumption of what was supposed to be understood.


I wish the OP all the best.

Crazy Dave

[FunWithGravity2]

Dradford, Excuse me for a minute while I take some of these fellows to school. Crazy Dave's video is showing how many rotations the pendulum turns the wheel. The pendulum is driving the wheel. What I've been saying is quite the opposite. The wheel is pulling the pendulums. Take a 10" string and tie a weight to it. Hold the string with the weight hanging in front of you and move your hand suddenly to the left. What happened? Your hand with the string moved ahead of the weight. The weight LAGS behind. If you just keeping moving to the left, it still lags. This is what happens on the wheel. The pendulum weight lags because it is being pulled by the wheel. But only on the left side in a cw rotation. This happens at about 7 to 11. At about 12 to 6 the pendulums are smoothly thrown out at a 40 to 50 rpm. So at roughly 12 and 6 a switch has happened. Pulling to being thrown out. There is no perpetual motion here that will power a wheel as they seen in my prior explanation. The 2 simply cancel. One could say the left side of the wheel is pulling while the right side is coasting. But I certainly don't want to confuse the issue here. I'm not here to state something that I think is true. I'm here to explain with hands on experience that it is true. Everything I have explained will be shown to be true eventually. Again take it or leave it. As for me showing a wheel with pendulums, I'm not dissembling my wheel just to show that. Cheers

And then i saw this on the very next page and knew it was done. As soon as schools in session i know we are in for a ride.


Every step on the journey is an important one to learn from. I hope you can get your excitement for designs in check so that you can work through them with intelligent observation and an open mind able to accept criticism where it is duly warranted. Head in the sand denial of help based on your firm belief in your imagination wont get any further down the road you are on.



Walking in the city i could hear a man speaking loudly about a subject. He sounded as if he truly felt that he was providing important information to people. As I found out where the sound was coming from i moved towards it until i could see a large crowd of people intently listening and agreeing. I wanted to know what was going on and had to find out. Clearly this man knew something that i must know. As i drew closer i was able to see that this was a homeless man reading of the menu for the week at the shelter to his fellow guests. His conviction and confidence were astounding. I'm not even sure if it was really the menu or if he was making it up as he went along.



Crazy Dave

[Wubbly]

Only page 12? You missed the good stuff.

Marchello made an awesome animation of the calloway wheel on page 15 HERE.

Another user shared a WM2D sim of it on page 15 HERE.

A collage of the sim at various wheel velocities was shared on page 17 HERE.

His opposing pulley system was already simmed as MT005 in another thread HERE and HERE.

[FunWithGravity2]

Oh no, after that post i continued to read on and enjoy the content. One of the main reasons i only stop by once a year for a short bit. Although throughout those threads and a few others it is clear that Fletcher, MrV, Yourself, ME and an odd fellow here or there have quite a nice bit of potentially rewarding paths of thought being followed. All the best. Wish i could join and contribute my overly simplified train of thought but i usually find myself lost in the world of academia that eventually takes over. I then retreat back to my comfort zone and shy away from overload of hypothetical energy theories that eventually inundate most good threads at some point. I'm a simple fool who still cooks anything i want without ever looking at a cookbook. I pinch of this and a bit of that and then taste it. I use that same approach with my wheel and i just get lost when the physics fogs my brain.


Crazy Dave

[agor95]

As people pop into the site during x-mass.

Here is my link that is best used without a smartphone browser.

https://steampunks.ddns.net/

There were some updates with Calloway GW illustrations during the year.

Cheers

[ME]

Wish i could join and contribute my overly simplified train of thought

What's the suggestion?

[Robinhood46]

Calloway,
It is good of you to share your thoughts. We have much more chance of finding a solution if we share our thoughts than keep them to ourselves.
Feedback is helpfull when sharing our thoughts because it allows us to look at what we are seeing in a different manner. Very often negative feedback is more productive than positive.
So here i go to explain to you why i think that your wheel will not work. This is obviously only my honest opinion and we both know that i could be completely wrong. I have constructed many wheels over the last 37 years (i haven't been doing this nonstop, i often stopped for a tea break).
What i found with the method you are explaining is very similar to what i found with Georg's rocking mechanism.
The sliding of the weights needs to be forced to slide before it wants to slide of it's own accord. The mechanism that is being used to force the advancement of the sliding falls under the exact same rules as a mechanism trying to turn a wheel. If a mechanism can effectively move the sliding weights laterally to be continually out of balance then the mechanism itself will make the wheel turn because it would be putting the wheel out of balance. Adding the weights on sliders gives the impression that we are combining two mechanismes to create the movement of one wheel. What i always found was that i was actually only having one mechanism that is turning/moving a first construction which then turns a second construction (the wheel). I found i was just adding an extra layer to the system.
My findings can basically be boiled down to, if a mechanism cannot make a wheel go around it cannot move a construction of any kind that will make a wheel go around and if it can do one it will also do the other.
This is how i have analysed all my failures with this sort of approach.
I do hope you can find a solution where i have failed.

[Calloway]

I moved all my attention and work to the right side of the wheel. I added aluminum extensions with gloves to every slider weight. This allowed the pendulums to catch the slider gloves at around the 2 o'clock position turning cw. The pulley system was discarded. I connected a wire between the sliders to act as pairs. The pendulums pull the pairs of sliders now instead of trying to push them. Cheers, Robert