My view is, that you use eccentic weights, as I showed it with my rolling cylinders with unequal mass distibution, and you use an impact(trouble force) to arrange the eccentic weights in that way, that gravity must do work again. One sided in the wheel.
I use the impact, were Prof. Evert like to have it round.
Prof. Evert is right, when we run centrifugal devices, but not when construct a BW or Gravity wheel. The impact is absolutely neccessary to get a selfrunning system into swing. Tilt swing with impact.
Hi Georg, interesting solution ... but I ask, the impact do not take energy from the wheel kinetic energy ? I believe eight impacts (if you use 8 weights) on 360° is a problem but maybe I am wrong.
Hi, maybe Bessler wheel will be something like this example picture:
a wheel composed by 8 segments (black lines are boundary). Every segment is 43.5° (45° - 1.5°) wide. The sum of all segments is 348°, thus twelve deg on 360° are void. Every segment is free to move (not fixed to each other) between this 12°. Every segment have one counter balance (blue ball) that have the same weight, connected by a bar (red line in the picture). Counter balance is placed at about 95° ccw (see letters coupling in the picture....when in up position is something like a see-saw ). Can anyone try to simulate this model or is too complex for WM2D ?...shure this idea can be optimized, I hope this work.
Hi Claudio Unstable,
if you don't use a trouble force, then your desing will not work. No chance.
An impact must not be bad to a system, it depends on what you are doing with this impact. In the segmented cylinder version the impact is used to power the dowel wheel. By turning the dowel wheel, the internal mechanism is falling over again, tilting. It is like someone sweeps your feet away, again and again. When the wheel turns, the internal mechanism is unstable.
Georg, in this version weights are inside the same segment. Immagine to rotate the wheel CCW until segment drop to left side (when in rotation maybe this happen by inertia). This generate an impact. Have this impact enough energy to help rotation until next left drop ?
I am convinced that segmented wheel is the key for PM. Probably if we use segmented wheel in combination with some other unbalance trick in a manner that one can help the other we "create" PM. Think about it
Speaking for myself, I am not responding to this concept because I do not understand it. What is keeping the ascending balls from falling to the bottom of their segments. How does this change the center of gravity.
What is meant by "if we use segmented wheel in combination with some other unbalance trick in a manner that one can help the other we "create" PM." What is some other balance trick ? If we had that answer we could have shut this forum down a long time ago.
I very seldom have any input with Georg's thread for the same reason, I simply do not understand all the different concepts he has posted and claimed he has found the answer. If this is so then why does he keep posting ideas in such perplex manner that you cannot preconceive.
Because I get the feeling that when someone does actually solve it, that Georg will come out of the woodwork and say "see, that's what I meant by trouble force".
I feel the same about Georg, and knew that it had been mentioned before. I could not remember who said it.
Any concept that I am currently involved with does not rely on trouble force, (what ever that is?) I too believe he is only trying to cover his, you know what in anyway he can in order to get his finger in the pie. Ever notice how everything he posts contains a copyright notice.
I state this on open forum so that he can defend or dispute what I say. I would not want him or anyone to think I was making statements behind their back.
Some day when I have misplaced my solitaire deck of 51, I will review this forum and count the claims made by Georg that he has the answer.
Ralph, I admit my previous design and concept are not clear. I think to this segmented wheel like a thing that help me to play with time (relatively to the wheel). I am searching one way to anticipate or delay some event to create unbalance. Maybe this is not the right way. When I say "if we use segmented wheel in combination with some other unbalance trick in a manner that one can help the other we can "create" PM" I mean to use segmented wheel in combination with some other overbalance method .. example shifting weights by lever or rope etc. In picture kick1.gif every weight is connected to a segment of a wheel and can not drop...same thing in picture Complex_1.gif: every weight is connected to a segment by a bar near fulcrum point (immagine to solder a metal bar to a segment and on the other side to a weight ...this can not drop) the wheel rotate and while rotate one segment is shifting little (12°). In a 2D picture you see a overlap of bars but in real 3D this not happen. I generate some confusion ...sorry
Ralph
I think i may know what Georg is talking about when he uses the word
trouble force.
I think a better word could be used to explain it in a more scientific way.
As I think about what he says, I try to remember times when I have witnessed
a reaction that happens when something like a disk is rolling and it hits an interference at the surface it is rolling on.
The forward motion of the disk is equal as it is freely moving forward, but when it hits a object that slightly interferes with it's motion, all the force shifts up and forward. A powerful force is suddenly shifted all the mass up and to the top of the disk.
It receives a slight kick or as Georg calls it a trouble force. A force from interference of motion, but not enough to stop it.
Have you ever noticed when running up a stairway that has open risers, and if your foot happens to catch on one of the treads the reaction of your body? Your upward motion is interfered with and a large change in action occurs as your forward motion makes a circle like a crankshaft action, and puts all the upward and forward motion into downward . It is a strong force change in a internal circle.
I think Geog has found someone to help get his ideas out.
Unstable may be leading the aproach.
WheelDesign:
Why should the balls rotate?
Why is the gap at 2'o clock?
When the weight on the left is resting on something (in this case a triangle) the center of gravity shifts to the right, so the balls will rotate CW until there is no resting point.
The triangles will rotate CCW until the gap is at 12... and then nothing.
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
Hi Marchello, in my design "Complex_1.gif" every ball is connected to a segment (A to A , B to B, an so on) by metal bar (red line) thus balls and segments rotate together. Do not take care about ball leaned to segment boundary its only for "draw comfort"(siplicity drawing) (mmm I am not able to correctly translate). If you note we have: COG of all segments to the left (because void 12° at two o'clock) but COG of all balls little to the right because void space at 2 o'clock is "transmitted" to balls at this point. Now if we add some other overbalancing method to cover about 25° (immagine this wheel when start to totate ccw) maybe we can gain a constant global COG to the right (little bit shifted) and thus obtain PM....but I can be wrong ! Consider that triangles (segment) shift across from (like segment A in the picture) the first segment after void space (ccw) when void space is about at 1:40 o'clock.
Take in to account the counter balance of segment ...in the upper side segment and ball are like a V see-saw.
I believe the solution is to add a mec trick (something like in this picture) to little extend counterbalance radius (blue balls) to anticipate triangle and counter balance shift when counter balance is about at 10:40 o'clock. In this manner we restore COG to the left before the wheel is stopping. Am I wrong ?
