MT-124 Backlash Device

[AB Hammer]

To All

There is only one thing left to do. That is build it. So when I will start carving the wood track and the stands. I already have the steel balls needed and the magnets. I will post it on Community Buzz the step by steps that I do. The weather here is very hot and I have indoor time for the carving. This way I don't take away from my scheduled work. Since I am a historic re creator I will build it close to the picture but since it is veg I will have to add my thoughts into the build.

[ssmyser]

Thanks to everyone who has had thoughts and comments on my original post, I've enjoyed the feedback and speculation that has followed. I would now like to ask a favor of all members interested: Can I get an opinion: Yes, No, or undecided as to whether or not the images 'H' and 'i' are conclusively related or unrelated to MT-124. Remember this is just an opinion, and if you're not sure don't be afraid to say so. I'm looking for honesty on this. I'll even settle for 'likely' or 'unlikely'.

I'll restate my own position on these two images: I believe that images 'H' and 'i' pictured with design MT-124, have been added to the drawing (later) and may represent a critical piece of Bessler's single direction wheels. I also believe that there may be other images that don't quite fit the intended design of the machine they are pictured with. Thanks all, -Steve (ssmyser)

[ssmyser]

AB, I envy you. I'd like to be building right now, (beautiful weather here) but too hot in my garage. My wife wouldn't take kindly to power tools being used in our house. So, it won't be till September till I can make sawdust again. I'll be looking forward to your progress.

[AB Hammer]

ssmyser

It won't be very big just 18 inches across and I have hard floors for carving (easy clean up), but no power tools allowed. LOL

As for opinion on the H and I. I see them as an arraignment of magnets. As for the secret of Bessler I don't think so, for it looks to much like MT2. My builds up to date look nothing like them either.

I do have one more theory that what is shows is instead of magnets but are the device to go under water to catch water motion to help in the movement of the balls on the track. That would also make since of the C line and the shadow effect like if it is under water.

[Stewart]

Stewart knows the reason about the missing J. I forget the exact reason but it is language related and it isn't mysterious.

Blimey, four posts in the space of three weeks after not posting for two years - I think you'd better have a bit of a lie down - you may be over-doing it! :-)

The alphabet only has 24 letters - I & J are represented by the same letter and so are U & V. The seemingly missing J & U is something that is commonly seen in diagrams of the time.

B is very unlikely to be a shadow - why would you label a shadow, and why would a shadow appear sandwiched between the top and bottom pieces of the support post? As Ed has mentioned, our own personal favourite explanation at the moment for B is that it is a water (or air) filled tube that will squash on one side under the weight of a ball, raising the track on the opposite side. I also prefer the idea that H & i represent the discs or spheres that are circling the track - imagine a sphere with an internal, sealed disc compartment that looks like H/i, and inside this compartment you put some water. I speculate that the fins and water would cause the sphere to favour turning in one direction only, and therefore help to stop it rolling backwards on the track. We haven't tested this theory properly yet though.

As far as magnets go, I can't see how they would be applied to this particular design, but I think we should consider their use in Bessler's wheels carefully. Jim, I think you're seriously underestimating the power of lodestones and magnets in Bessler's time. I have a document printed about 100 years before Bessler demonstrated his first wheel which shows a good understanding of magnetism, poles, fields, attraction, repulsion etc., and how to use lodestones and make magnets by augmenting the power of the lodestone with iron or steel caps, and magnetising iron and steel. The document talks of some lodestones/magnets being able to "take up great weights", and in another part it talks of an attraction gap of 1 inch.

I think it's a bit strange that MT seems rather devoid of magnet related devices, despite them being a popular choice for PM designs before and during Bessler's time. There are some classic PM designs that use magnets which you'd think would have been worthy of discussion in MT - did Bessler simply not consider magnets at all, or did he remove all magnet designs from MT because they gave too big a clue? Who knows! We know he was familiar with magnetism as he did posses lodestones according to the inventory of his possessions made after his death. If he did use magnets in his demonstration wheels, I think it would have been in conjunction with gravity/overbalance. You'd think someone present at the demonstrations would have thought to bring a compass along to test for magnetic fields! Also, lodestone is distinctive in appearance and would have been recognised - hence perhaps the need to cover the weights removed from the wheel with his handkerchief (also, if the ends of the lodestone were capped with iron or steel, this might explain why Bessler would not allow the ends to be touched). There was a large lodestone quarry in Germany during Bessler's time that would have been a convenient source for him should he have needed lodestones.

Anyway, this whole subject is worthy of its own topic, and I'll add it my list of things to talk about when I've got more time.

Stewart

[david jenkins]

Hello all! Did Bessler write anything on the page of MT142? I have read that he has on other MT's.




Dave

[AB Hammer]

david jenkins

Only up to MT56 If yo look at Besslerwheel wiki pages.

[John Collins]

Yes just upto MT56. There are no other MTs just two sets of photos, one taken a few years ago and the other more recently.

JC

[Stewart]

Hello all! Did Bessler write anything on the page of MT142? I have read that he has on other MT's.

There's nothing hand drawn/written on 124 other than the number itself (I assume you meant 124 and not 142 as the numbers only go up to 141). After 56, the page with 63, 64 & 65 on has two hand-drawn hatch-marks (or double Xs); 67 has a hand-drawn X as does 68 and 70; 73 & 74 have hand-drawn NB symbols; 75, 76, 77 have hand-drawn Xs; 78 has a hand-drawn hatch-mark (or double X); 79, 86, 87, 88, 92 have hand-drawn Xs; 103 has a hand-drawn NB symbol and a hand-drawn pulley system like that which is shown on the right hand side of the MT50 image; 105-137 have hand-drawn numbers rather than carved on the woodblock; 106, 107, 109, 111, 113 have hand-drawn Xs; 115 has a series of small hand-drawn Xs and dashes, as well as a larger X; 116, 120, 126, 129 have hand-drawn Xs; on the back of 135 is a hand-drawn image of some sort of balance; on the back of 136 is a hand-drawn image of a Roberval balance with hand-written text at the top; and on the last page (toy page) are the hand-drawn numbers 138, 139, 140, 141, plus a hand-drawn image of a spinning-top with hand-written text next to it.

Stewart

[ssmyser]

Stewart, what exactly does 'NB' stand for?

[david jenkins]

Does the dashes and X's in 115 match anything in AP?
Thank you all for the info, it gives me alot to think about.




Dave

[John Collins]

Nota Bene - note well

JC

[Quartz]

Hi All

Look at MT 6 upside down looks like I and H to me, that’s too much of a coincidence. What do you guys think? Or am I nuts. :)

Ken

[wheelrite]

magnetic loadstone and iron magnets existed but were very weak(relative to modern), and the wrought ones easy to 'kill'.
regards
J

[ssmyser]

That's pretty good Quartz. You're right. There is a definite resemblence. Is there any relevance? Probably not. But still an interesting find on your part. Bessler loves to play mind games like that.