Bessler's 2 Wheels

[Ben]

Pathfinder,
I've already been sighed at by the very wordy Fletcher for saying this, but I'll always maintain that there's no such thing as a prime mover. Everything inside the wheel must be symetrical for it to work. Maybe not in how it moves, but in how it's built. A prime mover would be either the force that causes the wheel to run, ie, gravity, or the force, ie, person that pushes the wheel to start it. Inside the wheel all parts must be equal, no? Otherwise there's an extra part to weigh it down that serves no purpose when the wheel is in motion.
Ben

[path_finder]

Dear ben,
Your assumption (a perfect symmetry inside the wheel) don't take in account the two different types of wheels (uni and bi-directional).
The first wheel was obviously asymmetrical (it must be stopped with a rope, and started by itself).
The last wheels were bi-directional.
In this case the symmetry is needed at the keeling position, but the assembly must become permanently asymmetrical after the start gentle push.
Therefore the symmetry does not mean anything: you must first specify if you are on a static or dynamic point of view.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Not_me,

I think you may be out with your forces needed to displace water!

This would be a closer guide! 80 kg of force to move 5 litres of water, depending on the design of the reservoir and compression system but still a good rule! you will need latching or valves as well! as once the lever is past it optimum leverage point the fluid weight will start moving the levers!there is less force needed as the reservoirs move towards a horizontal position!

But it does lend it self to leverage though as the force need only be a 10 cm (4 inches) movement depending on the reservoirs design!

The water may need to be cupped so the wheel knows where the weight is!

Could you answer this question for me, do you like pop music?

Regards Trevor

[AB Hammer]

@All,
I prefer the pseuodnym P-Motion. And am I concerned about being banned because Alan and Ralph don't like me ? No I am not.
This Autumn, I'll be able to build Bessler's wheel.
I recently had cancer which has caused me more problems than the disease itself.
Unfortunately as far as Ralph and Alan were concerned, so what!
The only reasson this is a problem is I do know how Bessler's wheel worked.
It's like I told Alan once when he told me he is a teacher, I know who my father is and he's an immigrant you don't like. I think he and Ralph are bigots. Either that or it is just that I understand this type of engineering better than they do and this doesn't allow them to be top dogs.
To tell the truth, it does bother me to have to watch everything I say ebcause Ralph and Alan might be offended. Who knows, maybe they deserve it.
It;s about like they're saying Achtung! Der kommisar echt um!


Bye

not_me
Jim, P-Motion, BAHammer, bessler supporter, and all the different names you have gone by.

Taking stabs already? When you make a statements and use them as quotes, you need to post where the quote came from. For you are very bad about quoting out of context to create different meanings of those you hate.

To all

For instance. Ralph or myself do not have singular power to ban anybody on this forum. So Jim's statement makes no since.

Then he uses the cancer as a poorboy being picked on so he can pass his word of hate off while trying to get people to feel sorry for him.

The teacher statement, I have been a teacher of armor making for over 20 years to those who want to learn.

Then he call us bigots? He doesn't realize, he himself is the reason he had been banned before and also so many other forums showing his own bigotry.

So Jim

If you can stick to wheel work, and keep your personal hatreds to yourself. You may not be banned again, and life will be peaceful.

[not_me]

Hi Not_me,

I think you my be out with your forces needed to displace water!

This would be a closer guide! 80 kg of force to move 5 litres of water, depending on the design of the reservoir and compression system but still a good rule! you will need latching or valves as well! as once the lever is past it optimum leverage point the fluid weight will start moving the levers!there is less force need as the reservoirs move towards a horizontal position!

But it does lend it self to leverage though as the force need only be a 10 cm (4 inches) movement depending on the reservoirs design!

The water may need to be cupped so the wheel knows where the weight is!

Could you answer this question for me, do you like pop music?

Regards Trevor

Hi Trevor,
I listen to a wide variety of music. Sometimes I find it confusing sometimes with what is what.
Is One Republic pop ? Yep, I'd have to say I like it, there's Katy Perry too.

One thing I hope to find out when I can get a test section built is how much water can get pumped by that design.
With the way it will hopefully work is that when the water is pumped, that pump would become a seal. Trying to keep it as simple as possible. You know, the fewer the parts, the better.


Jim

[not_me]

@All,
I prefer the pseuodnym P-Motion. And am I concerned about being banned because Alan and Ralph don't like me ? No I am not.
This Autumn, I'll be able to build Bessler's wheel.
I recently had cancer which has caused me more problems than the disease itself.
Unfortunately as far as Ralph and Alan were concerned, so what!
The only reasson this is a problem is I do know how Bessler's wheel worked.
It's like I told Alan once when he told me he is a teacher, I know who my father is and he's an immigrant you don't like. I think he and Ralph are bigots. Either that or it is just that I understand this type of engineering better than they do and this doesn't allow them to be top dogs.
To tell the truth, it does bother me to have to watch everything I say ebcause Ralph and Alan might be offended. Who knows, maybe they deserve it.
It;s about like they're saying Achtung! Der kommisar echt um!


Bye

not_me
Jim, P-Motion, BAHammer, bessler supporter, and all the different names you have gone by.

Taking stabs already? When you make a statements and use them as quotes, you need to post where the quote came from. For you are very bad about quoting out of context to create different meanings of those you hate.

To all

For instance. Ralph or myself do not have singular power to ban anybody on this forum. So Jim's statement makes no since.

Then he uses the cancer as a poorboy being picked on so he can pass his word of hate off while trying to get people to feel sorry for him.

The teacher statement, I have been a teacher of armor making for over 20 years to those who want to learn.

Then he call us bigots? He doesn't realize, he himself is the reason he had been banned before and also so many other forums showing his own bigotry.

So Jim

If you can stick to wheel work, and keep your personal hatreds to yourself. You may not be banned again, and life will be peaceful.

@All,
Here is an example of what Alan is talking about it. It's about 6 pages so won't take much time to read if you care to waste your time.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6431.0

here is one funny one from Alan,
Now stop crying about your illnesses. Like I said before, you are stronger than that. I believe this statement is what you called me being cruel to you. Now I work with pain every day, but I am stronger than my pain. That is the lesson you should learn. I have a big wooden sign over the door way to remind me to go on. Thou shalt not whine.
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2338 on: March 20, 2010, 11:23:04 PM »

Alan, until you have cancer, i wouldn't call it whining. But as you did post, you don't want me building anything because you are only saving me money.
Tell me, what money will you be saving me ? I already have the wood.
But since cancer has financially broken me for the time being, what should I do with my time ? Do crossword puzzles ?
Sorry, but I find this more interesting and to my liking.

[not_me]

@All,
I prefer the pseuodnym P-Motion. And am I concerned about being banned because Alan and Ralph don't like me ? No I am not.
This Autumn, I'll be able to build Bessler's wheel.
I recently had cancer which has caused me more problems than the disease itself.
Unfortunately as far as Ralph and Alan were concerned, so what!
The only reasson this is a problem is I do know how Bessler's wheel worked.
It's like I told Alan once when he told me he is a teacher, I know who my father is and he's an immigrant you don't like. I think he and Ralph are bigots. Either that or it is just that I understand this type of engineering better than they do and this doesn't allow them to be top dogs.
To tell the truth, it does bother me to have to watch everything I say ebcause Ralph and Alan might be offended. Who knows, maybe they deserve it.
It;s about like they're saying Achtung! Der kommisar echt um!


Bye

not_me
Jim, P-Motion, BAHammer, bessler supporter, and all the different names you have gone by.

Taking stabs already? When you make a statements and use them as quotes, you need to post where the quote came from. For you are very bad about quoting out of context to create different meanings of those you hate.

To all

For instance. Ralph or myself do not have singular power to ban anybody on this forum. So Jim's statement makes no since.

Then he uses the cancer as a poorboy being picked on so he can pass his word of hate off while trying to get people to feel sorry for him.

The teacher statement, I have been a teacher of armor making for over 20 years to those who want to learn.

Then he call us bigots? He doesn't realize, he himself is the reason he had been banned before and also so many other forums showing his own bigotry.

So Jim

If you can stick to wheel work, and keep your personal hatreds to yourself. You may not be banned again, and life will be peaceful.

@All,
Here is an example of what Alan is talking about it. It's about 6 pages so won't take much time to read if you care to waste your time.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6431.0

here is one funny one from Alan,
Now stop crying about your illnesses. Like I said before, you are stronger than that. I believe this statement is what you called me being cruel to you. Now I work with pain every day, but I am stronger than my pain. That is the lesson you should learn. I have a big wooden sign over the door way to remind me to go on. Thou shalt not whine.
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2338 on: March 20, 2010, 11:23:04 PM »

Alan, until you have cancer, i wouldn't call it whining. But as you did post, you don't want me building anything because you are only saving me money.
Tell me, what money will you be saving me ? I already have the wood.
But since cancer has financially broken me for the time being, what should I do with my time ? Do crossword puzzles ?
Sorry, but I find this more interesting and to my liking.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Jim,

What you are trying to do is possible, as it is just a numbers and ratio game! by matching the leverage force to the compression force that all.

I did a lot of work on this subject and know it can be made to work!

I only stop because I found a better way to use levers and hydraulics, and that is to drive a hydraulic motor to rotate the wheel!

In the search of bessler wheel would be me only reason for me to look at it again but I do not think that how besslers wheel worked!

I built some of my reservoirs out of blue flat hose as I only needed to seal the ends, it comes in a number of sizes and is easy to compress! most of my builds where from cutting up beach air beds as they are cheap, I did have one explode once but that was a over the top just how quick can I move the fluid experiment! but speed is a issue given besslers RPM this is why I do not think besslers wheel worked on water!

My priorities at the moment is to build a cost effective answer before the UK goes Nuclear as where to small to cope with a disaster!

I hope this of help an good luck Regards Trevor

[AB Hammer]

I have to disagree with you Trevor

The fluid pressure from gravity will keep the wights pushed away from the edge, except the bottom weight of the wheel, then the reset of the weights have to happen. The gain is not enough to cause the wheel to spin. But I have told Jim/not_me this and since he disagreed with me, so I said build the wheel.

Alan

[AB Hammer]

@All,
Here is an example of what Alan is talking about it. It's about 6 pages so won't take much time to read if you care to waste your time.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6431.0

here is one funny one from Alan,
Now stop crying about your illnesses. Like I said before, you are stronger than that. I believe this statement is what you called me being cruel to you. Now I work with pain every day, but I am stronger than my pain. That is the lesson you should learn. I have a big wooden sign over the door way to remind me to go on. Thou shalt not whine.
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2338 on: March 20, 2010, 11:23:04 PM »

Alan, until you have cancer, i wouldn't call it whining. But as you did post, you don't want me building anything because you are only saving me money.
Tell me, what money will you be saving me ? I already have the wood.
But since cancer has financially broken me for the time being, what should I do with my time ? Do crossword puzzles ?
Sorry, but I find this more interesting and to my liking.

Jim ect. ...

Thanks for proving my point. You have to look at both points of views.
As for your whining? When you use something as a verbal crutch it is whining. Like for an example, (I am so sick everyone should be kind to me but you are a wanker, and I will keep attacking you but you can't do anything to me for I am sick. waa waa).

By the way Jim, I offered to do a build for you so you could move on. But you would rather mince words several pages later prove it.

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2267 on: March 14, 2010, 08:46:52 PM »

The string started to calm down until Jims post 13 post later.
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2280 on: March 15, 2010, 12:24:47 PM »

To all

I quit talking to him on Over Unity so he came over here.

This is the last post I will post to this person with many names. For I do not want this to happen here like it did on Over Unity. For this guy will not stop. On Over Unity proves it.

edited for grammar.

[not_me]

Hi Jim,

What you are trying to do is possible, as it is just a numbers and ratio! by matching the leverage force to the compression force that al.

I did a lot of work on this subject and know it can be made to work!

I only stop because I found a better way to use levers and hydraulics, and that is to drive a hydraulic motor to rotate the wheel!

In the search of bessler wheel would be me only reason for me to look at it again but I do not think that how besslers wheel worked!

I built some of my reservoirs out of blue flat hose as I only needed to seal the ends, it comes in a number of sizes and is easy to compress! most of my builds where from cutting up beach air beds as they are cheap, I did have one explode once but that was a over the top just how quick can I move the fluid experiment! but speed is a issue given besslers RPM this is why I do not think besslers wheel worked on water!

My priorities at the moment is to build a cost effective answer before the UK goes Nuclear as where to small to cope with a disaster!

I hope this of help an good luck Regards Trevor

Hi Trevor,
It is, thanks.
There are something I have been wondering about and you might be doing it.
Bessler does offer it's challenges. With the builds I've done, I've used a bushing with no lubrication. I think Bessler used hard wood and animal fat. Trying to keep it close.
One of the reasons I am trying weight only is in case I can create a lot of torque. If so, then that might lead to a fast spinning wheel. Hedging my bets if you wheel (it's a pun).

[not_me]

@All,
Here is an example of what Alan is talking about it. It's about 6 pages so won't take much time to read if you care to waste your time.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6431.0

here is one funny one from Alan,
Now stop crying about your illnesses. Like I said before, you are stronger than that. I believe this statement is what you called me being cruel to you. Now I work with pain every day, but I am stronger than my pain. That is the lesson you should learn. I have a big wooden sign over the door way to remind me to go on. Thou shalt not whine.
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2338 on: March 20, 2010, 11:23:04 PM »

Alan, until you have cancer, i wouldn't call it whining. But as you did post, you don't want me building anything because you are only saving me money.
Tell me, what money will you be saving me ? I already have the wood.
But since cancer has financially broken me for the time being, what should I do with my time ? Do crossword puzzles ?
Sorry, but I find this more interesting and to my liking.

Jim ect. ...

Thanks for proving my point. You have to look at both points of views.
As for your whining? When you use something as a verbal crutch it is whining. Like for an example, (I am so sick everyone should be kind to me but you are a wanker, and I will keep attacking you but you can't do anything to me for I am sick. waa waa).

By the way Jim, I offered to do a build for you so you could move on. But you would rather mince words several pages later prove it.

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2267 on: March 14, 2010, 08:46:52 PM »

The string started to calm down until Jims post 13 post later.
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2280 on: March 15, 2010, 12:24:47 PM »

To all

I quit talking to him on Over Unity so he come over here.

This is the last post I will post to this person with many names. For I do not want this to happen here like it did on Over Unity. For this guy will not stop. On Over Unity proves it.

Alan,
I'll take the bait, okay ?
Why are you trying to help me when you could be helping yourself ?
It is very nice of you but considering I have spent 10 years doing various amounts of rehab to over come my accident, why haven't you done the same for yourself ?
I have suggested to you exercise and diet to help relieve your pain and make it easier for yourself.
But you are so selfless you insist on helping me instead. I think it's time you thought of yourself. After all, you are at high risk for heart disease and diabetes. And I think you deserve better than me. After all, I have never been a good friend to you.


Jim

[daxwc]

Jim, I think health and lifestyle are in a different section.

I will help you by directing you to it.
http://www.oprah.com/index.html

[justsomeone]

Ben said:

" onlysomebody,
I was just looking at your album. I see no builds at all in there, so maybe you should stay out of this "
Ben


With all do respect sir, you don't know what you are in for with Jim back here.

Go over to overunity.com and check out the posts from p-motion. You will find 100's, I repeat 100's of post attacking Alan, Ralph and others.
Many times he has been asked to just talk wheels. He never can! This is a great forum and I respect 98% of the members. I hope what goes on at overunity does not happen here. You'll see.

Jim, I would have no problem with you if you just talk wheels.

[Michael]

As for your whining? When you use something as a verbal crutch it is whining. Like for an example, (I am so sick everyone should be kind to me but you are a wanker, and I will keep attacking you but you can't do anything to me for I am sick. waa waa).

Alan it's called playing the victim. Unfortunately there are people who fall for it.