?
Moderator: scott
Re: re: ?
Hi Mark,
I like the link.
The following links are to a wheel I modified while I was going through chemo and radiaition therapy. I was bed ridden 23 hours a day for a while.
If anyone cares to notice, by adding mass (more weights), accelration from over balance changes.
To help understand what it might take for a gravity powered wheel to work, acceleration needs to be understood.
Why ?
Because acceleration can be converted into momentum (spin).
Of course, you will find most people avoid discussions about detailed engineering. The saying is, the Devil is in the details.
With Bessler, his genius is in the details of his engineering, not in his clues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orFRdRrVAxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iXVwqYg ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjzgKxDV ... re=related
edited to add; a sense of humor works also. I was telling a gal I work with that I was trying to explain to some guys on line that levers can pump water and it's not been easy.
She started laughing immediately. Not sure if you guys will get it why she did. But I think it's pretty funny :D
re: ?
Oh you, heh heh heh hee!
re: ?
:-)
Well Ed, life does happen. So does engineering :D
One of the basic details of what I think might be Bessler's wheel is found in Newton's F = mA or F = d/dt (mv).
What does this mean in a wheel ? Something quite simple really. The closer the weights stay to the axle, the less energy they need to rotate with the wheel.
And if the cause of over balance is at the outside of the wheel, then the amount of over balance that can be converted into momentum of the wheel is much more and gives the wheel a much better chance of working.
Cause and effect in it's purest form :-)
Well Ed, life does happen. So does engineering :D
One of the basic details of what I think might be Bessler's wheel is found in Newton's F = mA or F = d/dt (mv).
What does this mean in a wheel ? Something quite simple really. The closer the weights stay to the axle, the less energy they need to rotate with the wheel.
And if the cause of over balance is at the outside of the wheel, then the amount of over balance that can be converted into momentum of the wheel is much more and gives the wheel a much better chance of working.
Cause and effect in it's purest form :-)
re: ?
:-)
Well Ed, life does happen. So does engineering :D
One of the basic details of what I think might be Bessler's wheel is found in Newton's F = mA or F = d/dt (mv).
What does this mean in a wheel ? Something quite simple really. The closer the weights stay to the axle, the less energy they need to rotate with the wheel.
And if the cause of over balance is at the outside of the wheel, then the amount of over balance that can be converted into momentum of the wheel is much more and gives the wheel a much better chance of working.
Why this is, is also simple. If the cause of over balance is at the outside of the wheel, it allows gravity to act on it longer increasing it's potential.
Of course, leverage mmight be the better answer here for the simple reason that because it is furthest from the axle, it will exert thee most force on the wheel..
Cause and effect in it's purest form :-)
Well Ed, life does happen. So does engineering :D
One of the basic details of what I think might be Bessler's wheel is found in Newton's F = mA or F = d/dt (mv).
What does this mean in a wheel ? Something quite simple really. The closer the weights stay to the axle, the less energy they need to rotate with the wheel.
And if the cause of over balance is at the outside of the wheel, then the amount of over balance that can be converted into momentum of the wheel is much more and gives the wheel a much better chance of working.
Why this is, is also simple. If the cause of over balance is at the outside of the wheel, it allows gravity to act on it longer increasing it's potential.
Of course, leverage mmight be the better answer here for the simple reason that because it is furthest from the axle, it will exert thee most force on the wheel..
Cause and effect in it's purest form :-)
re: ?
@All,
Have heard the German's child's toy is a clue.
There is another way of looking at it.
C and D as shown can line up with the long levers on Mt 20.
But if you look at the toy, it has short levers that move rrelative to the hammering. And with D, when it moves outward could transfer it's force to beams.
Just a thought.
Have heard the German's child's toy is a clue.
There is another way of looking at it.
C and D as shown can line up with the long levers on Mt 20.
But if you look at the toy, it has short levers that move rrelative to the hammering. And with D, when it moves outward could transfer it's force to beams.
Just a thought.
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re: ?
As far as Bessler, I think she'd like to see it.
It's one thing to hear about something, something else to see it happen.
Thought I would flip the long lever on Mt 24 around. This way, it can move the short lever more efficiently. And it would become essentially an 8 weighted design.
One thing about something like this, the short lever could move only 2 inches and move 2 pounds of water. I think 1 pound of water is about 27.77 cunic inches. As far as the weight necessary today, we have bearings, bushings, etc. which will allow for less weight to be needed than what Bessler might have used.
It's one thing to hear about something, something else to see it happen.
Thought I would flip the long lever on Mt 24 around. This way, it can move the short lever more efficiently. And it would become essentially an 8 weighted design.
One thing about something like this, the short lever could move only 2 inches and move 2 pounds of water. I think 1 pound of water is about 27.77 cunic inches. As far as the weight necessary today, we have bearings, bushings, etc. which will allow for less weight to be needed than what Bessler might have used.
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re: ?
@All,
A long while ago, I asked John Collins abou a quote and he was nice enough to clarify it for me.
I am wondering if someone is familiar with it as I think it will help.
The clue has to do with Bessler not using water, wind or weight as people did.
What is interesting about the clue is that he included water.
If anyone could help out with this, I'd appreciate it.
A long while ago, I asked John Collins abou a quote and he was nice enough to clarify it for me.
I am wondering if someone is familiar with it as I think it will help.
The clue has to do with Bessler not using water, wind or weight as people did.
What is interesting about the clue is that he included water.
If anyone could help out with this, I'd appreciate it.
re: ?
There's nothing special about this quote.
These conditions were meant to prevent external air or water movement turning the wheel, to prevent a wound up main spring and clever clockwork mechanism running a long time, and to prevent a barometer effect influencing the wheel.
He could still have used water or mercury as weights, or bellows with air, or springs as short-term storage devices or return mechanisms, etc.John Collins translation of GB (pg.54) wrote:It was agreed that no wind, water, springs, clock mechanisms, mercury, or any other hidden motive power was involved, which for example clockmakers, millers, smiths, or waggoners might use.
These conditions were meant to prevent external air or water movement turning the wheel, to prevent a wound up main spring and clever clockwork mechanism running a long time, and to prevent a barometer effect influencing the wheel.
re: ?
Hi Ed,
I'm not sure if it was that quote or another that John mentioned to me.
Still, as you mentioned about bellows, I think that is something that helped him.
I know there was some discussion about him having realiised something seeing lead and iron melt. If he saw them melt, he would have seen how they were melted. And this would have been a bellow being used to pump or blow air. depends on how you look at it.
otherwise, how would they have gotten the coals/fire hot enough to melt metal ? And from what I know about American black smith shops, they all had bellows.
Of course, connecting 8 bellows together woulg give the basic idea a test.
And since, bellows are directional.
I think ultimately he could have used a leather tube. Leather was used for canteens back then. And as for mercury, if you're right, that would create a lot of over balance.
I'm not sure if it was that quote or another that John mentioned to me.
Still, as you mentioned about bellows, I think that is something that helped him.
I know there was some discussion about him having realiised something seeing lead and iron melt. If he saw them melt, he would have seen how they were melted. And this would have been a bellow being used to pump or blow air. depends on how you look at it.
otherwise, how would they have gotten the coals/fire hot enough to melt metal ? And from what I know about American black smith shops, they all had bellows.
Of course, connecting 8 bellows together woulg give the basic idea a test.
And since, bellows are directional.
I think ultimately he could have used a leather tube. Leather was used for canteens back then. And as for mercury, if you're right, that would create a lot of over balance.
re: ?
@All,
Thought I'd show you a pic of Mt 24 modified with a bellow by the short lever.
It would only have 1/2 the motion. But hopefully, you guys will get a decent idea of how Bessler might have thought of it initially.
Somethng like this, if it worked, would probably rotate slowly (barrely work) as the nozzle on the bellow would limit the flow of what fluid Bessler might have used.
Thought I'd show you a pic of Mt 24 modified with a bellow by the short lever.
It would only have 1/2 the motion. But hopefully, you guys will get a decent idea of how Bessler might have thought of it initially.
Somethng like this, if it worked, would probably rotate slowly (barrely work) as the nozzle on the bellow would limit the flow of what fluid Bessler might have used.
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justsomeone
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re: ?
Please explain Jim, how are you going to pump water in a split second?