Should ISIL be stopped, right now?

[Ed]

Iran is threatening. We should give them a poke to see if they're a bitch.

There's a lot of "bitches" the U.S. If "we" did what you are suggesting to US citizens who make similar threats, they would just hide behind the second amendment. Why is it ok to do it to other nations but not ok to preemptively disarm a US citizen who make threats? If there is probable cause, it should be ok in both situations. Oh, it's against your freedom? Hmmm.

[preoccupied]

US citizens play a cat and mouse game with the local police. The law has grown to accept that scenario without modification in most of the USA, even though more intrusive measures could significantly reduce crime rates. An example of going in the direction of being more intrusive in the USA is stop and frisk in New York City.

This is a new York times article that I found by searching:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... -elsewhere

Stop and frisk saves African American lives.

Ed, The reason a foreign country should have less rights as a terrorist than a citizen in our own country is because we police our own country. We don't police other countries who threaten us because they are sovereign nations. Therefore if they are threatening like a criminal or terrorist, we can't play a cat and mouse policing game with them. There is also a great deal of cooperation in the USA that is not criminal. A country in the middle east in which could be overthrown would have a large portion of the population that would be disgruntled and not trustworthy. A large portion of the USA is not disgruntled and ready to shoot people. You have confused idealism Ed. You can't see past your American Government education to see the tactical scenario involved with dealing with crime or terrorism. These terrorist countries should not have a second amendment right. Not for a long time. Whoever's bright idea it was to let them keep guns, must have a silly mind, IMO. It must be the same geniuses who think it's okay to have casualties in war, when we are so technologically ahead of the opponent that we could break down the scenario into a casualty free war, easy.

For example, if Canadians were threatening the USA, we wouldn't bomb them and overthrow them, eh? They have a well established community of complacent people, of course. I dare say, I really trust Canadians. Canadians are good people. I won't say that about ISIL. I would crush ISIL for being an evil entity bent on doing this country harm. I would let Iraq have no weapons, no military, and I would tax them to have the US military handle their legal, currency and military affairs.

[Ed]

Whoever's bright idea it was to let them keep guns, must have a silly mind, IMO.

Here is your silly mind at work.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

[preoccupied]

Ed, are you saying Ronald Reagan was a weak and silly President? If I were Ronald Reagan then, I would have invaded Iran, disarmed them, and stole those hostages back. If those hostages had died, I would have stole everything of value in Iran and used that as an outpost to put the rest of the area on notice if they were to threaten the USA. Protecting the USA is very important. The only deterrent to using our military is that dumb military leaders won't fight a real war where you don't have US soldier casualties unnecessarily. Wars can be fought with zero US soldier casualties.

This is what I would tell congress when they say invading is a bad thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw429JGL5zo

, or in other words, I would go straight martial law! Poor Ronald Reagan didn't have the balls to act like a man and put a gun to the terrorists head instead of offering them weapons so that they possibly do more damage later.

[murilo]

WAR is a huge business as all other we can met around:

http://www.manufacturing.net/news/2014/ ... 5&type=cta

There are people who deserve every penny/centavo they win!

[AB Hammer]

You will find, that you can not reason with religious fanatics that believe they are the only rightful religion and the only ones who deserve to run any country. They will tell you what you want to here only to gain time and possible deception to get the upper hand. They will give us two choices if they are allowed to keep growing until they can not be contained. Death or conversion. Good bye freedom, Good bye equality beliefs, and if you don't agree with this slave religion? Good bye head. So as a civilized people who are about to be pushed into what it takes to kill a religion which is against our belief. Sometimes we just don't have a choice. Israel tries to be humane but when they tell the people to leave a location, it seems only the rocket launchers get moved and they don't allow the people to move. It is sad but Israel is giving Hamas the upper hand thanks to the media today. One must remember a brainwashed child grows up to be a fanatic like those who teach them. I really hate when an innocent is hurt, killed, but I hate is worse when they are corrupted to do evil. Where is that line that needs to be stopped to save the innocent.

[getterdone]

You will find, that you can not reason with religious fanatics that believe they are the only rightful religion and the only ones who deserve to run any country. They will tell you what you want to here only to gain time and possible deception to get the upper hand. They will give us two choices if they are allowed to keep growing until they can not be contained. Death or conversion. Good bye freedom, Good bye equality beliefs, and if you don't agree with this slave religion?



I'm sure that Native Americans would agree with you on that LOL

[getterdone]

I'm enjoying a glass of wine , and just wanted to share a few thoughts with you guys.
First of all I was a bit offended by some of the things being said about Muslims. I have many Muslim friends , and I can asure you they are not stupid. As a matter of fact they aren't much differenent than you and me.

I was thinking back to last September , the headline on CNN ''Saving Seria''. This ISIL Group was trying to assassinate Al Assad, and most of the NATO Countries were funding them. Then they crossover to Iraq about 800 men ,the Iraqi Army lays down the weapons and leave, about 30,000 of them , oh and they take all the cash from the bank in Mosul ,about 40 million . The Obama Administration has fired over 3000 drones in Yemen, Somalia and Pakinstan, yet they didn't fire one shot while all this was happening, so wassup.

[preoccupied]

Israel is being such a nice group of people, against their better judgement. If I were Israel, I would do what I would want to do. Jim_Mich puts it best in this topic. I would want to act like Jim_Mich.

Personally, I'm a libertarian. My philosophy is, don't mess with me, and I'll leave you alone. But lay one tiny finger of aggression against me, or my family, and I'll hit you with everything I got. That said, what you do in your country is your business. That is none of my business.

Though the Statue of Lady Liberty stands in NY harbor, my government it not libertarian, but I'm working on changing that.

So basically if I were Israel, I would say that the UN better evacuate everybody in Palestine because here is the deal: Leave or die. Everybody in Palestine just has to leave. It's Israel's now. Any Palestinians there will die because they all have to leave.

Why do this? Because it's what you want to do. If a neighboring was shooting at me, I would force him to move to another location, or die. I wouldn't think twice. As soon as I'm being attacked, that land is mine and its residents better get out because I do not tolerate terrorism. The rest of the world and the United Nations should get used to that kind of behavior because it's the only way Israel will have a zero casualty war vs this militarily inferior enemy. If Israel continues to fight fair, they will continue to have casualties. I think by showing backbone that the rest of the middle east will back off of Israel especially when they complain about their behavior because they would know Israel means business and will kick their ass and they could even lose their land about it. Israel deserves that respect. Benjamin should learn a thing or two about war and how to be effective at it. But it's not like he is alone in playing stupid war games. even the USA is bad at war. The USA could have 100% casualty free wars also. I mean zero US casualties. There would be a lot of enemy casualties until there is complete cooperation. It's so bizarre. Our militaries are so strong, it's literally a one sided fight. Why do we risk losing soldiers? It makes me so mad!

Jim_Mich could lead Israel to victory over Palestine in one week. I bet my pretty hair on it. If Jim_Mich is given control of Israeli forces and foreign relations, and he fails to kick out Palestinians in one week, I will shave my head. Believe it.

[jim_mich]

Hey, don't drag me into this.

The fight between the Palestinians and the Israelis goes back thousands of years. Both sides are wrong. Both sides are the aggressors. And American tax dollars go to support both sides. Israel gets more money from the USA than it gets from its own people. The USA is broke and it still sends money to Israel. Besides, the Palestinians were there first.

Israel is like a big bully toward the Palestinians. And when the Palestinians try to fight back, they are considered the aggressor. Both sides carry a grudge.

So don't put me in charge of some foreign war. It's not my fight.

You fail to understand the libertarian philosophy, which is one of defense, not aggression. Switzerland has had this philosophy for hundreds of years. It has served them well.

[preoccupied]

Jim_Mich,

Israeli and Palestinians issues don't go back thousands of years. I believe that sentiment is a comedians joke and not something you can just say for real. Great Britain ratified Israel as a country not that long ago. The Jewish People were forced to Israel by Adolf Hitler because he forced them to leave Europe.

England or Great Britain or whatever make countries out of nothing all of the time. As far as I'm concerned if Queen Elizabeth II goes ahead and says something is a real country at any point in time, I would totally acknowledge it as a country. It's a very legitimate basis for having a new country, to have the British royals endorse it. Having British Royalty make you into a real country is better recognition for being a country than the United Nations. It's way more legitimate than Palestinians saying that Israel cannot have their land. British trumps Palestinians, hands down.

If Israel is a real country simply because of British Royals and it is, then there are no disputed areas, it's just what Great Britain said is Israel and that's final. Now however, if Israel is attacked by its neighbor, I believe that is grounds to expand their territory all the way across Palestine to remove that threat from their borders.

The USA is not broke. We have an economy. The quality of the economy could take some punishment, taxes and printing, which is not being done. If we pawned 4% of US property value, (I'm being cute), we could pay our entire national debt right now. The reason you think the USA is broke is because nobody has any good ideas to raise revenue and the national debt is increasing faster but you don't want any revenue, as a libertarian, you basically don't want government.

I'm not entirely sure I know all of the facts about Israel. I'm pretty sure Israel is not a bully to Palestine but what do I know? Like I said, probably not everything. However, if the dispute is about land, then it's not a dispute because British royalty already set Israel there on the map. It's legitimate. Almost all countries in the world are set up by British Royalty. It's the most legitimate set up there is. When Israel is attacked, then Israel should be allowed to remove the rest of Palestine in its defense, under the authority of the British crown, for goodness sake, just like most of the rest of the world. I kind of have a headache I don't mean to be rambling if I am. Basically, if Israel is a real country, then that is not bullying. Being attacked by Palestinians and threatened by other countries like Iran has every justification to retaliate. I think maybe Israel is not doing enough, and people who think otherwise, they might be wimps.

I think I see what you are saying though Jim_Mich. You not concerned about Israel because they are not you. If you were being attacked by rockets, you would probably ask that neighbor to move away. I mean not literally the USA being attacked, but you and in your yard. You would have the neighbor who is firing at you move out. You would have every authority under the law to do it. They would no longer have rights to their property once they are firing rockets into your property. I'm just saying. You wouldn't tolerate your neighbor blowing up your house. They would be asked to move away. Such as to prison. It would be no different if Israel just asked all Palestinians to move out of Palestine for attacking.

However, if Israel is a huge dick to everybody and I just don't have the full story, then maybe Adolf Hitler was right when he said that he left some Jewish people alive so that people would see why he killed them. I'm not so sure though, it seems like Israel is bending over backwards to keep high moral standards. I'm not sure why anybody thinks Israel is a bully. Could you enlighten me?

[rlortie]

I do not think Britain or the royalties made Isreal!

From Wiki:

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly recommended the adoption and implementation of the partition plan of Mandatory Palestine. On 14 May 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[9] and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel," a state independent upon the termination of the British Mandate for Palestine, 15 May 1948.[10][11][12] Neighboring Arab armies invaded Palestine on the next day and fought the Israeli forces.[13] Israel has since fought several wars with neighboring Arab states,[14] in the course of which it has occupied the West Bank, Sinai Peninsula (between 1967 and 1982), part of South Lebanon (between 1982 and 2000), Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights. It annexed portions of these territories, including East Jerusalem, but the border with the West Bank is disputed.[15][16][17][18][19] Israel has signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, but efforts to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict have so far not resulted in peace.

In its Basic Laws, Israel defines itself as a Jewish and Democratic State; it is the world's only Jewish-majority state.

[preoccupied]

rlortie were you alive may 14 1948? I'm pretty sure Great Britain set up Israel to be a state and then the UN followed after that to recognize it. I guess to prove it I would have to prove that I am over 100 years old and know it because I was there when it happened. There is no way Great Britain didn't set up Israel. What? Did I fall into a parallel universe where everything is different? I lament, perhaps wikki is right. U.N. did it. I hate being wrong. I was almost 75% sure that I was right.

[rlortie]

Yes, I was alive in 1948! The British did not set up Israel, in fact they gave up their termination of the British Mandate for Palestine, which they had held since the early 1920's.

If you wish to know more, browse Wiki and visit T. Laurence aka Laurence of Arabia.

the Mandate instrument passed by the League of Nations granting Britain a mandate over the area currently occupied by Israel, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jordan. For a history of the period, see Mandatory Palestine and Emirate of Transjordan.

[preoccupied]

rlortie, how did Israel have a military in 1948? I believe it was because of British royalty. I think they occupied the area and then established military for the Jewish people. I swear I knew about this before - I don't know why I am wrong. Israel of today didn't just magically develop a military in 1948 after Adolf Hitler took all of their belongings and told them to skedaddle. I am pretty sure Adolf Hitler basically just dropped a bunch of Jewish people in the desert with nothing to their name. They had to have been set up by the British who owned the property at the time. I could have swore, as if I were alive then almost, that the British established and then gave up the area, which is basically the same as what British royalty did for Hong Kong. Israel is just like Hong Kong. Why am I wrong rlortie? Why am I always wrong or only 80% correct?